Hang him!

Who-ever slaughtered those two police women should be given a swift trial, found guilty, allowed an appeal, to be completed within six months of the trial, and then taken to a suitable place of execution and hung by the neck until he is dead.  Those young women, in their no doubt plod-like way, were acting as our surrogates, or if you like, our servants in doing their duty to investigate what they thought was a straightforward burglary.  A murderous assault on them is a murderous assault on all of us.  They deserved, indeed, they were absolutely entitled, to the best protection we can provide for them.  Arming them would achieve nothing.  In so far as I can understand from the MSM, they were lured into an ambush and carrying guns would have availed them nought.  Only the certain and sure knowledge in the criminal mind that murdering a policeman (or any public servant) will automatically lead to the rope would have any effect in altering their criminal behaviour.  Yesterday's killer will probably spend about 20-odd years in jail swaggering about as he lives on his 'reputation' as a cop-killer.  Probably he will be out in late middle-age, free to repeat his cowardly crime.  It is even possible that some particularly dimwitted 'Cocklecarrot' will congratulate him on his courage as that idiot did the other day when he let a burglar go free.  Finally, a thought for all those people who resolutely refuse to countenance the death penalty - how much responsibility do you - yes, you! - take for the deaths of those two young women?

 

Comments

[backofanenvelope]

Didn't it used to be the case that murder of a policeman or prison officer mean't hanging?

[David Duff]

Crikey, 'Envelope', I could write several volumes on what "used to be the case" but now that the loonies are running the asylum . . .

[dearieme]

Hanging's too good for him.

[David Duff]

Slow garroting, perhaps, DM?

[backofanenvelope]

There is a fairly common belief that change is a good thing. Perhaps we need to retrace our steps in some areas. Like executing people who murder other people.

[Andrew Duffin]

20-odd years in jail?

I doubt it.

A 20-odd year sentence, possibly.

Automatically halved in practice.

Then let out on licence long before that.

I predict he actually serves about eight years.

[Stephen Newton]

What a shame you feel a need to attack these police officers as 'plod like'. There is nothing to suggest they were anything other than professional. So why the insult: why suggest they were slow witted like Blyton's PC Plod?

You inadvertently expose the flaw in any form of deterrence when you say 'Only the certain and sure knowledge in the criminal mind...'

If it were possible to insert 'certain and sure knowledge' that crime leads to punishment the crime rate would almost certainly be lower. But you rely on the criminal thinking the issue through calmly and rationally, forgetting violent crime tends to take place in the heat of the moment. You forget that the majority of criminals are suffering mental illness or drug addiction (often both) and so cannot be relied upon to assess the risk of punishment and to be subsequently deterred.

Even where the criminal has thought things through and is aware of the risk of punishment, they may assess it as low (i.e. they do not expect to be caught) or take action to mitigate the risk (i.e. by taking action to evade capture). Bear in mind that many criminals will greatly underestimate the risk of capture and so proceed undeterred. People like yourself, who write-off the police as 'plod-like', assure criminals that the risk of capture is low.

This is not to say criminals should not be punished, far from it. But that punishment has very little role to play in reducing crime. Indeed, history shows that periods with harshest punishment (say the Victorian era) also had the highest crime rates, particularly violent crime.

We are fortunate to live at a time when crime is historically low (although, conversely, fear of crime is at a high). It is partly because incidents like yesterday's are so rare that we are shocked. It is not part of our everyday.

[dearieme]

"We are fortunate to live at a time when crime is historically low": compared to when?

[David Duff]

'Envelope', you are beginning to sound like a re-actionary - I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!

Andrew, the pity of it is that you may well be right!

Stephen, my description was not an attack, it was merely a likely probability given that most plods most of the time are, like most civil servants, plod-like!

As for criminals in general, do you suppose that they are incapable of understanding the TV and the front page of The Sun in front of which they spend an inordinate amount of time? Do you also suppose that the inmates of the prison in which one of their kind is hanged will not, you know, pick up a clue? If the man currently under arrest is in fact the guilty party then he lured those officers to a deadly ambush which he must have planned and executed (word chosen deliberately) with plenty of forethought. He then had the gumption to hand himself into the police because he probably suspected that he would not live long if he found himself holed up with a police armed unit outside. Let me remind you of the wise words of the good doctor:
"Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."

[Robert]

a policeman (or any public servant)
What, are public sector workers more valuable than those of the private sector?

[David Duff]

Absolutely not, Robert, and personally I would approve of the death penalty for any murder irrespective of the victim's status. But we live in the world we live in and the chances of achieving that broad aim are nil, so, on the basis that half a loaf is better than none, that is my suggestion. Also, we, as the 'employers' of public servants, owe them a duty of care and our failure to use the deterrence of execution is an abrogation of our responsibility. But, hey, the Great British Public irresponsible - so what's new?!

[Stephen Newton]

David
It's Hillsborough all over again, isn't it? Despite all the evidence to the contrary you insist that the victim must share some blame.

[Dom]

The knowledge that an attack on a police officer will bring swift retribution is part of what protects the officer, just like a bullet-proof vest. We would never say, "Why do we give bullet-prrof vests to officers but not to private sector workers? Are they more valuable?" It is what we owe them for placing them in harm's way.

[backofanenvelope]

You say that the Great British Public is irresponsible. What is any of this to do with the GBP? If there was a referendum on hanging for the murder of policemen, I think that they GBP would vote yes hang the b*****ds.

[Whyaxye]

Your point that he would be out in under 20 years (or eight years, as per Andrew Duffin) is contentious, to say the least.

I am old enough to remember the Harry Roberts case. He killed 3 police officers, and he is still inside after more than 45 years. This bloke will get a similar amount, and prison psychosis will ensure that he cannot put together a reasonable case for parole at the end of his 30-year stretch. His only hope would be some muppet allowing Euro-softies to overrule our systems.

[Furor Teutonicus]

The deterence value of the death panalty is of only secondary importance.

You don't shoot Gnasher the rabid rottie, to teach Jefferey the poodle to be a good dog. You shoot the rottie to remove a dangerous, uncontrolable piece of shit from the community.

And THAT is and should remain THE main use of the death penalty.

[David Duff]

Stephen, you really must go to SpecSavers! In my post on Hillsborough I wrote specifically that the victims were not to blame but the people whp pushed and shoved were. And, pray tell, where in this piece have I indicated that the two policewomen were to blame for their own deaths? I don't mind a good kicking if it is aimed at something I have actually written. Now, try again!

Quite so, Dom.

I wonder about the GBP, 'Envelope', they might huff 'n' puff now but actually faced with the question ... I wonder.

You may be right, 'W', but I wouldn't trust a Cocklecarrot as far as I could throw him - or her!

Atta boy, FT, go git 'im!

[Backofanenvelope]

Well, one way to see what the GBP thinks, is to ask them. What do you reckon the chance of that is? Opinion Polls suggest abt 70 percent would say hang him. If he's guilty of course.

[David Duff]

By and large our masters do not seem to be in favour of asking us anything - except for our votes once every five years.

[Louise]

Maybe he could be persuaded to take up skipping as part of his fitness regime. Awfully versatile, those ropes.

[David Duff]

Tut-tut, Louise, what are you suggesting?!

[Andrew (2)]

We have a strange set of coves in government at the moment. Crocodile Dave shed tears at the death of two police in the same week as his chief whip abuses a police and his chancellor ensures that Avon and Somerset can keep their police helicopter at no increase in price - just a reduction of 20% in the time that they can use it within the contract. It seems to me that attitudes contradict and that what we need is adequate resource for our police service.

[David Duff]

Hello, Andrew (2), and may I say what a restrained chap you are: "We have a strange set of coves in government at the moment".

Well, something beginning with 'c', anyway!