The bottomless pit of my ignorance

There's no end to it!  The more I try to learn something the more I realise how miniscule my knowledge is.  Take for example, Disraeli and Gladstone.  Oh, go on, give them a try.  How much do you know about either of them?  Almost certainly more than me.  Disraeli?  Bit of a flash-Harry, Jewish chap in a frock coat.  Gladstone?  Bit of a dull, Anglo chap in a frock coat.  Gladstone, I think, out-whiskered Disraeli!  Mind you, I do know a bit about Lord Salisbury because I have actually read Andrew Roberts' biography.  Proper chap, that Salisbury, and an all-out winner in the whiskers competition, too!

Anyway, now, because I have just read Dominic Sandbrook in The Mail, I simply have to read a good biography of both of them.  I have a vague memory that the late Roy Jenkins wrote a much-praised biography of  Gladstone but I am slightly wary because Jenkins, as a liberal politician himself, might be a touch too sympathetic.  Anyway, if any of you lot 'out there' can recommend anything I would be pleased to know.

So what, I hear you ask, did Mr. Sandbrook have to say on the subject of these two mighty Victorian statesmen?  Well, enough to convince me that Disraeli was the Tony Blair of his age:

At bottom, Benjamin Disraeli was interested only in Benjamin Disraeli. His entire political career was devoted to his own advancement; it is not for nothing that he famously boasted of having climbed ‘to the top of the greasy pole’.

As a young man in the 1830s, he tried to make his name as a novelist. But when money and fame were slow to materialise, he decided on politics instead.

Like so many of today’s professional politicians, Disraeli had distinctly mercenary motives. Although his father was a rich literary critic, young Benjamin had run up large debts because of his inordinate fondness for the high life. As an MP, however, the law would protect him from imprisonment for debt.

His principles, meanwhile, were as changeable as the winds.

I'm not suggesting that Mr. Blair is a financial wastrel but he certainly pursues the big bucks with a dedication that is almost frightening.  Back to Disraeli:

Having initially pretended to be a radical, he then flirted with ultra-reactionary Toryism, opposing efforts to improve the lot of the downtrodden working classes and scorning attempts to reform the corrupt political system.

Indeed, it spoke volumes about Disraeli’s essentially destructive style that he made his name with a devastating attack on his own party leader, the dogged and serious Sir Robert Peel, who wanted to scrap the archaic Corn Laws which protected British farmers against foreign competition.

Peel and his fellow reformers believed that free trade would benefit ordinary British families, who were naturally delighted at the prospect of cheaper food. But in this crucial test of principle, Disraeli preferred to back the wealthy vested interests of the day.

It was entirely typical of his cynical style, though, that once the Corn Laws had bitten the dust, he made no effort to restore them. Throughout his career, he saw principle as subordinate to tactical self-interest.

Oh boy, do I have to learn more about this man!  But what of Gladstone?  According to Mr. Sandbrook:

 Although Gladstone and Disraeli are forever associated in the public imagination, they could hardly have been more different. Disraeli was funnier, more flamboyant and more dashing.

But on almost every count that actually matters, Gladstone was far superior. He was a more convinced reformer, a more imaginative chancellor and a dedicated public servant who genuinely cared about the plight of the poor.

He upheld the principles of free trade, banished corruption from the civil service and introduced universal education for Britain’s children. And although he campaigned passionately for oppressed peoples abroad, he shrank from foreign adven- tures and despised Disraeli’s jingoistic excesses.

Above all, Gladstone was a man of impeccable moral seriousness, a hard-working, high-minded man with the courage to address the thorny issues of the day who left Britain a richer, fairer and more virtuous society than he found it.

Oh dear!  And just when I thought I could return to my favourite pulp fiction for a bit of R&R after all that learning from Ferdinand Mount, it's 'bak to skool' time again!

Comments

[dearieme]

"Anglo chap in a frock coat": you could hardly be wronger. He delighted in pointing out that he had not a drop of English blood, being entirely a Highlander on his mother's side and a Lowlander on his father's.

[JK]

All that reading seems to me, an exercise of the most tedious sort.

Tell you what – David? Take you new second hand car over to IKEA and pick us up a hookah. DM, see if you can clear the clutter from your closet and find your record player. I still have my original press of Cream’s Disraeli Gears.

Now, as for Gladstone.

Andra? Be a nice girl and on your way to all of us gathering up in David’s garret – stop off in some Asian place and pick us up the requisite amount of hashish. Pretty please?

[Able]

Try 'Disraeli: Biography by Stanley WeintrauB' - a bit heavy going but it covers the context of social and political influences (I couldn't face the Lord Blake but 'managed' this one).

If you want the 'juicy gossip' and the 'gruesome details' (OK exaggerating a bit) of the rivalry between the two then try 'The Lion And The Unicorn by Richard Aldous'. It lacks a lot of the context but is eminently readable nevertheless.

I'm ashamed to a distinct apparent bias as I've yet to read any in-depth biography of Gladstone (Oh OK I managed the work without having to resort to even more reading, I much prefer a bit of fiction, preferably involving having my buckle swashed).

JK - "exercise" please don't use language like that around me. Oh and an English gentleman does not partake of foreign intoxicating substances preferring the Port, Brandy, Single Malt, cigar and the odd couple of pints at lunchtime (on a quiet day, when I'm being 'good') - all whilst sitting reading (well, staring at a book anyway).

[JK]

Well then Able - so long as it's Glenfiddich - you've been included on the guest list. Brandy would be fine too, so long as she's the same as she was when last I was in Hong Kong.

Pert breasts, rear-end dreamily sized and shaped so to perfectly mold to my lap? If that remains descriptively true - sure, she's invited too.

[david morris]

If it's an oversight of these two you seek, I can recommend the background provided by the sadly missed GM Fraser. From imperfect memory, both Disraeli & Gladstone feature in the Flashman "autobiography" (Flashman at the Charge).

Kind regards

[Able]

JK

Don't mind if I do - although It'll be Glenmorangie. Brandy sounds familiar, lovely girl (and quite reasonable rates - I only know as I heard it from the airmen, honest), although she was on Ascension when I met her (she does get about, or did they say put it?..., I forget). I no longer associate with such damsels, being of the romantic persuasion and therefore (following our hosts example) I am searching for a more permanent arrangement. Why?

http://demotivationalblog.com/2008/08/14/a-wife-because-beer-is-heavy/

(Please Don't tell Andra, Miss Red, or any other lady I said that! I bruise easily)

DM
Oh and being a 'cutting edge' .. nerd I'm aware that Mr Disraeli also made a cameo appearance in Mr Pratchetts latest - 'Dodger' (along with Mr Dickens). See, you'll now be able to sound 'hip', 'cool', er.. 'right-on' or whatever it's called now, whilst queuing with the oiks/youff (also known in this area as 'undergraduates') buying their alcopops and extra-strength cider.

[JK]

Able - Glenmorangie's perfectly acceptable. Still, you'll have to bring it, TSA'll take it off me at National if I try to board there. (Plus the duties are so very extreme taking it - much like Brandy - in an' out of the "homeport" I'd be hardpressed decided whether to even attempt bringing it up to the garret.)

"Ascension"? Yeppers. I'm guessing the same. Then again - being some 30 years on - you reckon she might have a neice, maybe a much younger sister? I only ask 'cause I'm growing increasingly aware of what 30 years can do for hillbilly girls. Time -contrary to what I've previously been given to understand - doesn't heal everything I of course am relatively unscathed being a former Naval Airman but given you bring enough Glenmorangie, I think I might be capable.

Provided the fees haven't stayed up with the rates of inflation.

"Why" you ask Able?

It's been the far side of 30 years man - how the hell m'I supposed to remember.

[Able]

Naval? Ah well, you'll eventually live it down (the Navy, the only service where they march hand-in-hand). We didn't get any ad astra, but lots of extra ardua 2/2.

I'd post you some but is the Postal Service any better than 'Two by two hands of blue'? Anyway, shouldn't you be shivering your timber with rum?

30 years? Hah, lightweight, I can't remember last week!

[JK]

EA-6B Prowler you lightweight Brit! - and where's that "Able" come from anyway?

And how'd you get anyplace without your forebearers doing what ya'll present-bearers have to ask the French to do ....

Er.

Well. I'll take your Union [Crap]Jack in this instance Able cause very apparently you've not been shot off a catapult (voluntarily) needing instead a Rolls-Royce to gently lift your English butt gently into the whereas planes ya'll launch off your carriers ... er, the Frog's carriers... er, the Spanish carriers...

Heck wth it.

I met Brandy in the Bear and the Bull. Somebody mentioned I should take her and her crew over to the China Fleet Club. Me being American I took that as me receiving a suggestion. And I took it as such. It was kinda complicated only because I was supposed to be interfering with the Austrailian Navy even though I was supposed to be saluting the Australian Navy person I couldn't understand what he was asking anyway.

Able?

Recall the defunct magazine "Mayfair"?

Prowlers are pretty much ineffectual even though the crews accelerate from 0 to 185 in 2 seconds on "your behalf" and we'll continue to do so - and you can continue to call me whatever

even though I'm a simple American - I'll be raising my standard for Brandy.

[JK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCXQycyN_Vs&feature=related

[David Duff]

Honestly! I open a blog post laced with my usual psuedo-intellectual pretensions in an effort to raise the standards around here and before I can turn round it's been taken over by a couple of ex-matelots reminiscing about their bar crawls back in the days when they were literally 'jack the lads'. NURSIE! Wheel those two old dodderers off into the corner before I start reminiscing about my old army days - ah, yes, the army, where men are men and the women are double-breasted!

David M., thanks for the tip on 'The Lion and the Unicorn', I think that will be an excellent start and provide a general over-view. If I want to dig deeper, I can. I have been wondering why I have ignored these two for so long. I think it may be that at the beginning and the end of the 19th century (roughly speaking) there were momentous events either ending or beginning and I have concentrated too much on them. All the inbetween seems rather dull in comparison. Anyway, I will try and put matters to rights.

[JK]

"I think it may be that at the beginning and the end of the 19th century (roughly speaking) there were momentous events either ending or beginning and I have concentrated too much on them..."

Yep. Makes sense to me.

"Corporal" you said? Marksmanship limited to not being able to hit the side of a barn while within the barn? "Long-johns your regular wear"?

Well David, count on JK to bring your some, er, ... uhm... powder I'll be expecting you to line up behind that sapling you've mentioned and practice your posture. You will promise that if a few hundreds of Frog-balls come whizzing past-trimming your long-johns you'll be asking Andra to be bleaching your underdrawers?

You'll need to be practicng that sort of thing David. I've got your application with Britain's Blue Mountain accepted. I'm 'specting you'll within the next 24 hours be in Benghazi.

Your camel awaits. Report to your newly formed unit. Just ask where is the HQ for, The NATO Light Brigade!

Don't fear though my friend - you'll be between the new Libyan Congress and the Mediterranian. Able and I will be watching your progress from the studios of FOX.

Just sit back and think of Lawrence. (NO. Not SoD. Of Arabia!)

[David Duff]

Let me make perfectly clear, JK, that French balls will not be permitted within a hundred paces of my underwear!

[Able]

JK

"where's that "Able" come from anyway? "

Since we've been introduced (manners you know?) you can call me by my first name - Un (that is stand, salute, figure out why jumping [being pushed] from a perfectly serviceable aircraft into enemy territory to set up a service station for one of those aircraft [that takes off straight up - as God intended] was a good idea, or figure out why sending my flight off willy-nilly to this or that third-world hell hole when we didn't have any aircraft there to protect was a good idea). Still, I got to practice my drinking and met many colourful natives with strange habits, no dress sense and a lack of manners (well I did at Fort Hood anyway).

"Prowlers are pretty much ineffectual" - as compared to what, the one leading seaman in a rowing boat (with 378 Admirals sitting back at the Admiralty sipping sherry) which with the current cutbacks is all we'll have left soon enough. Still being "a simple American" being ineffectual is OK as long as you look cool whilst doing it (remember to wear your Raybans and get some good backing music too).

DD
"Army"?!? - and to think I was supercilious to JK.

[David Duff]

I'm outnumbered here so, in the finest traditions of the regiment, I shall retire!

[missred]

I must say, Dear Duff, you manage to inspire your readership!

[david morris]

Jeez

Maybe of interest

http://partyreptile.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/hastings-on-boris.html

Kind regards

[David Duff]

That's a good read and I have now bookmarked 'the reptile'!