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Monday, 19 June 2017

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Hmm...no. Try to remember that the whole point of Brexit is to rid yourselves of the foreigners working there. Presumably while also maintaining right of access to European jobs and markets. Yep those EU countries sure do sell Britain a lot of food. And if they don't they will have piles of unsold food to deal with. You, on the other hand, will starve. And you have large numbers of expat British citizens in Europe currently receiving their health care for free or at least consistent with what the citizens of the country where they reside get themselves. That's not going to continue is it? Because it can't just apply to people resident with work visas. Spain is not going to take care of hundreds of thousands of your retirees. Nor will any other EU nation without sending you the bill.

Cue, Men of Harlot, parody song, lyric to be supplied on request.

David, I will buy and ship to you a window mounted AC unit if you need? You just need to handle that 50/60 cycle thing.

David,

Since you are a Fahrenheit man, I will point out that, where I live (California's Central Valley), today's high will be 109 degrees (which is 43 degrees Celsius). Deal with it.

No, Peter, the whole point of Brexit was *not* "to rid yourselves of the foreigners working there".

Nor, Peter, is it simply a matter of the Europeans having "piles of unsold food". It will be the pile of unsold Mercedes and BMWs that will give them indigestion.

I would strongly urge you to pause and rethink. Brexit and the outcome is a multi-faceted problem and as such there will be pros and cons for all concerned. I would add, most definitely, that it is not a matter of economics.

109 degrees?! Henry, how do you do that, or perhaps more pertinently, why do you do that?

Henry, tell him "it's a dry heat"!

I do that by staying indoors. We do have centralized air conditioning.

The reason I do that is that this is where we currently live.

The reason we currently live here is that Trish was working toward a Ph.D. at the University of California's campus here. Since she just defended her dissertation last week, she will begin to seek academic employment at some other American university.

So when she finds a professorship elsewhere, we will get the hell out of here.

"Centralized air conditioning"! All we have are a front and back door both of which we open and hope that a through breeze will waft through - fat chance!

look its a balmy 37% here in France and the pool is just 28% that means I have to jump in and take the initial shock and then relax with a cold glass of Rose wine.I understand that this is good for my wellbeing and if I did not have to get out to refill the glass it would be perfect.

David,

"By the late 1960s, most new homes had central air conditioning, and window air conditioners were more affordable than ever, fueling population growth in hot-weather states like Arizona and Florida. Air conditioning is now in nearly 100 million American homes, representing 87 percent of all households, according to the Energy Information Administration." https://energy.gov/articles/history-air-conditioning
You Brits should get with the program.

Judging by the results of today's spelunking at the opening of the Brexit negotiations and the decision to proceed with the divorce settlement before future trading relations are considered or, indeed, any other matter, I'd say things are proceeding as expected. By everyone in the EU certainly.

Gaffer,

"Brexit and the outcome is a multi-faceted problem and as such there will be pros and cons for all concerned. I would add, most definitely, that it is not a matter of economics."

Would you mind listing the "multi-faceted problems" and for each one state whether you think it economic or political?

SoD

Peter is right about one thing, yesterday Blighty rolled over and agreed the EU's agenda for the negotiations: Exit talks and agreement first, new trade agreement second.

First blood to the "Seasoned Ostfront SS veterans". Not a massacre, because Tommy didn't even show up. But proof of the lie "No deal is better than a bad deal". Negotiating the exit first and the new agreement second is a bad deal for Blighty. So why haven't we walked out already to claim our prize of "No deal is better than a bad deal"?

SoD

Here's the quality bureaucracy / seasoned Ostfront SS veteran plan explained : -

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-19/u-k-walks-into-brexit-talks-naked

Not good news for me, of course. As you might have detected, I'm not very positive towards power and the state. But I have to doff my cap at the EU and its consummate ease of planning and execution. The only state power that beats the market to breaking up monopolies, as I mentioned before. (How many monopolies has Blighty's own monopolies commission broken up over recent years? Energy, telco, banking, transport, health, education, social services? Another thousand Brit bureaucrats sat in an expensive office somewhere doing nothing. They even make the fire service look good.)

So we have quality governance on offer on our doorstep (cue remember similar conversation regarding mercenaries with Bob, and how Blighty was sustained by an open attitude to foreigners fighting our cause when quality and quantity of Brit troops was an issue. If "politics is warfare by other means", why not grab some quality foreign governance when our own is so appalling?). And we refuse it.

And we have the world's greatest single market on our doorstep, and refuse it.

Whether politics or economics is your thing, there's something for both on the subject of Brexit: A self-inflicted double-whammy.

SoD

Alas, pity poor SoD and Peter who both seem to be suffering with premature ejaculation! The first day of a 'gabfest' due to last at least two years and they know the outcome already!

These seasoned Ostfront SS veterans, they are I suppose, the descendants of 20th century Germans. The people who started and LOST two world wars! Now, led by The Dumpy One, they have imported a couple of million third world barbarians. We don't have much to fear from them, they will be rather busy keeping the Afro-Germans down.

Mmm, well the FT dos a good summary of Blighty's first day of the campaign ...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwilj5uHw8zUAhUlKMAKHQHmCCcQuogBCDMoAzAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Fc7923fba-1d31-39fd-82f0-ba1822ef20d2&usg=AFQjCNG-QbTJvhsRWidqjpZMCS68pgVtlg

We have to try and delay them, so we can learn in the field. Coz there ain't no learnin' in the noodles of Blighty's leaders.

Sliding into a Norgie EEA arrangement as a temporary fall back position, where we remain in the EEA and the Customs Union, and can plan for full exit at our leisure, has to be the only option now.

Plus, it took me a while to seek this out, but the exit paragraph of the EEA says it's only 1 year! ...

Quote

Article 127

Each Contracting Party may withdraw from this Agreement provided it gives at least twelve months' notice in writing to the other Contracting Parties.

Immediately after the notification of the intended withdrawal, the other Contracting Parties shall convene a diplomatic conference in order to envisage the necessary modifications to bring to the Agreement.

Unquote

http://www.efta.int/media/documents/legal-texts/eea/the-eea-agreement/Main%20Text%20of%20the%20Agreement/EEAagreement.pdf

Also, notice the brake on immigration, Article 28, item 3 ...

Quote

Article 28

1. Freedom of movement for workers shall be secured among EC Member States and EFTA States.

2. Such freedom of movement shall entail the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of EC Member States and EFTA States as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.

3. It shall entail the right, subject to limitations justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health:

(a) to accept offers of employment actually made;

(b) to move freely within the territory of EC Member States and EFTA States for this purpose;

(c) to stay in the territory of an EC Member State or an EFTA State for the purpose of employment in accordance with the provisions governing the employment of nationals of that State laid down by law, regulation or administrative action;

(d) to remain in the territory of an EC Member State or an EFTA State after having been employed there.

4. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to employment in the public service.

5. Annex V contains specific provisions on the free movement of workers.

Unquote

A half decent lawyer could keep a case for a brake on immigration to Blighty going for years!

(Interesting that one about the rules not applying to public "servants". Bloody typical statists: One rule for us, and one for them, eh?!)

So, the plan is: We make a dash for the cover of the EEA. Our country-bumpkin brigade should be alright with that coz there's a 1 year exit and a brake on immigration.

The lawyers give covering fire on the immigration brake, while we work out just wtf we're going to do next.

SoD

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