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Thursday, 14 September 2017

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Good God almighty! I guess if the German peoples could give us Martin Luther 500 years ago, they can give us Empress Merkel. A United States of America is a mighty struggle as it is but a United States of Europe? Prepare for multiple civil wars. National identities are much stronger than make believe central governments with whom few have any identification with or trust in.

Great Britain, get thee out fast!

And there's the Brexit con.

If we'd stayed in, the USE would not have been possible because Blighty, the Czechs, Poles, Danes, Swedes, et al was enough to prevent it.

Now that we have done our Dunkirk, there's nothing to stop the USE behemoth except escalation from diplomatic hot air conflict to something much more, as Farage has pointed out.

You did that. Yes, you. The blood and treasure investment of our forefathers in keeping the little guys in Europe free from tyranny so that we could enjoy security from the 2000 years conflict that came to our island from the continent, you just threw it away.

All the dead and a lost empire asked of you was to keep the fight going with hot air. And you bottled it.

When you turn your toes and have to face all those Toms, you're gonna have some explaining to do.

SoD

It will be interesting to see what this proclamation does to the remainers. Some might shed yet more tears because this vision of a European state is what they always wanted to be a part of. I suspect rather more will have a lot to think about, and may begin to privately admit that they got it wrong. So good news, really, as the UK begins to realise that we missed the train, but that it was always going somewhere rather nasty.

Remember my two bullies in the playground analogy?

With one bully, you're in trouble. With two, you're alright because they'll fight each other for the right to bully you, during which you won't be bullied. Hold their coats and keep 'em fighting if you want not to be bullied.

When it was the 28 vs EU we were left alone. Neither HMG nor the EU could bully us without the other blocking or objecting.

Now you've separated the playground into two zones, one for each bully. The bullies are thrilled! You're getting Corbyn unfettered by the EU in the UK zone, and the Czechs, Poles et al are getting the EU unfettered by the UK in the other zone.

"Two boots stamping on the face of humanity, forever", with apologies to George Orwell.

What have you done?

SoD

BTW, there is no way a USE defense force can exist side by side with NATO. Why should it?

Whyaxe,

It's not the Remainers who've cause to regret, it's the Brexiteers!

None of Juncker's plan was possible, or even worth speechifying, while the UK was in the EU.

It's your out vote that handed it all to Juncker on a plate.

And handed Blighty to Corbyn on a plate.

SoD

And in the not too distant future they will have to admit the need for a common language. Should be fun - from the sidelines.

I wonder how much of Juncker's speech was approved by the council of ministers? Has Merkel really agreed to give up her veto? Has Macron? Has Merkel really agreed to taxes being raised in Germany to be spent elsewhere (say Greece) Etc. Etc.
I don't doubt that Juncker would like this to happen. I'm not at all sure that he can make it happen.

SoD.

So there speaks a craven Europhile, who would prefer Britain to remain in anti-democratic, uncontrollable and unaccountable EU, rather than be a free, independent sovereign nation state. Did you not listen to what Druncker said? There will be no dissent, no parties opposed to the EU will be permitted, ex-sovereign states cowed into submission and their countries controlled by those they do not want and did not elect. Nothing we would have done by staying in would have changed any of that. We hardly won any argument in the EEC/EC/EU for 40 years - we're hardly likely to start winning arguments now are we? Bear in mind that if the EU commission hadn't been to bloody intransigent when dealing with Cameron in early 2016 there would have been no Brexit, but no, they couldn't bend, couldn't give him any concessions - and you are happy to be in bed with these people?

For all the talk of blood and treasure - we've wasted for too much of it over the last 500 years at least by trying to stop the arrogant and dangerous fools that populate the European continent creating a superstate under either Spanish, French or German dominance. Enough is enough.

Let them sort it out themselves - I can't see the Eastern European countries putting up with Druncker's sh1t for too long.

It should be mentioned here that the USE is the culmination of over 70 years of effort including America, the Marshall Plan, NATO and other entities. There are still security issues for Europe, including the UK. One under-reported wrinkle is current American involvement in Poland:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/14/europe/poland-us-troops-nato-welcome/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-poland-sanctions/russia-preparing-retaliation-against-poland-over-war-memorial-row-agencies-idUSKBN1A41VB

Don't be silly Sod.

All he's saying is that the plan hasn't changed. It's always been the end game.

By showing the soon to be oppressed people there's an alternative we've actually done them a favour.

I would expect the Visegrad group to leave en masse, and then not long after the Italian banks will go tits up. And it'll start to unravel.

But it would have done in any case at some point. Everything that is unsustainable has to end.

Better sooner than later. The nature of empires is the longer they have been squeezed together the bloodier the split.

Especially where excitable continentals and Germans are involved.

No Sod, whatever happens is not our fault, it will be their's.

If some one says "move and the puppy get's it", you move and the puppy gets it, you haven't killed the puppy. It was the other fecker.

This is the same situation.

So Lawrence,
According to your logic; by foolishly declaring war on Germany on September 3rd 1939, we British made it possible for the Germans to do the unthinkable. Instead of merely contenting themselves with Poland, they did the unthinkable by invading France and the Low Countries... AND IT WAS ALL OUR FAULT. If we had had the good sense to maintain the status quo, to negotiate, and to employ the time tested strategy of 'bleed and bait', the entire Second World War simply wouldn't have happened.

Stupid Britain. Everything was our fault!

To be fair to SoD, he has good reason to want the Czechs protected. A good cause, but I doubt we will further it by remaining in the empire.

What horror! Europe could become like the United States? What a tragedy that would be! But not to worry, Britain can stay out of it and become Europe's Puerto Rico.

You mean like a Lingua Franca, Uncle Mort?

SoD -

Not my fault. I voted for Britain to remain sovereign. Even if European nations coalesce into one gigantic super-state, they are unlikely to invade us. They will be too busy dealing with their own African invasion, and ruefully reflecting on the fact that it was self-inflicted. And I don't think Corbyn is any sort of threat. To actually damage the country, he would have to be in a position of power.

Can you imagine the nerve of those Africans Whyaxye! Expecting to go to Europe or Britain which invaded and conquered and divided their whole continent and spent the better part of a millenia extracting every resource and claiming every arable acre they could find! That's some nerve.

Don't forget to advertise your beliefs when you approach those countries about trade deals and access to markets and resources. They are bound to respect your honesty!

It's the "Carpe Diem" moment for Juncker and the EU crew.

The speech was an outrider, a recce. What real resistance was encountered? Hardly a peep out of anyone of consequence, only the Danish PM, was it, worried about the downgrading of the council of ministers.

Juncker wouldn't have dared make a recce speech like that 18 months ago.

"Look, fellas, there's nothing between us and the channel! The Brits have legged it - done a Dunkirk. Fire up the Panzers and go-go-go!"

If Merkel and Macron go for it, an upgrade of the Eurozone to the USE is a real possibility for starters. The rest will follow.

Blighty will end up in the exact geo-political position it has sought to avoid for a millennium: A Franco-German super-power on the European continent, in which we play no political or military part.

SoD

PeterG, a word of warning. You are welcome to express your opinions here BUT only if they remain reasoned and reasonable. Any personal nastiness will suffer "the unkindest cut of all"!

You can even see what the deal might be ...

Debt pooling in the Eurozone, the price the Jerries must pay. In exchange, Club Med nations handle all the migrants from the ME and Africa. That gets AfD off Merkel's back, and the Visegrad group off the EU's back. The Visegrad group must join the Euro and drop the legal reforms that erode the rule of law, as their price for not taking the immigrants and using the French nuclear deterrent and European army as cover from Putin.

USE job done.

SoD

Peter G -

I doubt if the African nations will be too bothered about our colonial past. Britain only colonised some of Africa, and we can always remind the Africans how kindly they were treated by France, Belgium, and Italy! And I think you'll find that Japan was rather more harshly treated than any colonised country, yet have no scruples about trading with the nation that dropped atom bombs on them.

No, they can't come to the UK unless specifically invited. That wouldn't be good for our overcrowded little island, and it wouldn't be good for their developing economies. Far better for them to stay put, make or grow things we want, and trade their way.

I'm gonna guess that the various other ethnicities around the world are going to be less than impressed with your reasoning there Whyaxye. And when it comes to direct investment and market access I suspect that clearly racist discrimination is likely to produce less than optimum results. Feeling a little crowded are you? Well that isn't going to get better. You might want to start thinking about which countries will be anxious to accept immigrants from a country with official racist policies. Kind of makes life tough on the Queen too. I mean she has to visit all these, ahem, darker lands that are still part of the Commonwealth. My gut feeling is that your reminders will fall on deaf ears when Europe helps and accepts them and you try to put up a wall. I guess we will see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Mg6Gfh9Co

Mutti Merkel's theme song?

That would make it three times in just over a century the master race [sic] have tried this.

Shalom AD,

Let's hope the third time is not the charm either.

Spot on OzD.

Unfortunately, BigHen, the only thing that stopped the first two has just bowed out for number three.

Lucky three it is for Merkel, then.

SoD

Shalom TBH

They have failed twice and I can't see them winning an armed conflict again.

It would be hard to convince such a polyglot group as a Consolidated EU ever having the cohesiveness of the Kaiser's or Nazis' Germany. I really think there is too much suspicion in mainly the former Eastern Bloc countries for the Kaiserin's ambition to come to fruition.

Like the poster. Reminds me of one of Golda Meirs quotes

The Egyptians could run to Egypt, the Syrians into Syria. The only place we could run was into the sea, and before we did that we might as well fight.

Even if Blighty got involved trying to thwart number three militarily, it would be an embarrassment that shadows even the Brexit negotiations ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/14/royal-navy-laughing-stock-three-quarters-warships-action-struggling/

Can't even defend our own citizens from a puff of hot air, whether it's in Brussels or the Caribbean!

SoD

AussieD, that youtube video was sobering. A reminder of just how easy it can happen.

Loz & AD,

Acknowledged.

That the Navy and the armed forces generally have been catastrophically mismanaged for years by successive governments is hardly news.

And is no reason for Britain to be governed by fascists based in Brussels.

I should have thought it was fairly obvious that the only way we can hold those responsible to account is if they are democratically responsible, in London.

No one in Brussels who counts, is democratically accountable to anybody, however beholden they may be to Mrs Merkel.

Aussie D.
Great post. I'm afraid that I cannot resist posting the musical riposte - also from the movies.

enjoy!

Richard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

So if I am reading the comments here correctly the consensus seems to be that war with Germany is imminent. After first bombing Brussels. I am going to suggest this somewhat undercuts the Brexiters arguments that Britain is essential to the security of Europe and will be a reliable partner in mutual defense. How would the Europeans be able to tell the difference between you guys and Islamic terrorists?

"How would the Europeans be able to tell the difference between you guys and Islamic terrorists?"

On the basis of how HMG has run defence for the past however long, they'd be looking for incompetence that exceeds that of the shoe bomber, under pants bomber, and bucket bomber combined.

That would be the surest sign any attempted outrage was the country-bumpkin military fraction at work.

SoD

And here's the clincher.

What would be the one and only thing that even on its own could tempt Merkel and Macron to foist debt pooling with the club medders in the Eurozone onto the German and French peeps?

The chance to be the first and second elected presidents of the USE.

And Juncker has just placed that indescribably tasty morsel on a platter in front of them.

The USE deal is there.

The personal career motivation is there for the two individuals required to make it happen.

You've gotta hand it to Juncker and the EU. They've got brains and courage in spades. The brains and courage that the British political class has singularly lacked since 1945 (with one notable, golden-haired, flash-in-the-pan exception).

And that's why those in Britain who aren't patriotically psychotic, who realize they are the third party, the third estate, separate from the UK and EU, who think "I, I, I" instead of binding themselves to one or other of the UK or EU with brain dead "We, We, We", number 48%.

It's why on balance 48% would rather be run by the EU that UK.

And this 48% can only grow. Because now that HMG is taking back control of more than just social services, education, health, and construction planning - all of which it has run with spectacular incompetence in the last 4 decades ...

- Social Services - 1400 young girls systematically abused in Rotherham alone due to SS incompetence
- Education - An entire generation with bogus degrees and qualifications irrelevant to getting a practical job
- Health - Elderly people routinely starved and dehydrated to death in their thousands
- Construction Planning - Rampant property inflation denying access to home ownership for most Brits

... the spectacular incompetence of the Brit pol class will only be exposed across more surfaces, like the Brexit negotiation itself, and drive more Brits to wake up and smell the coffee, and join the 48%.

"I think you will come to regret it", so said Juncker to Farage this week.

And he's right. But Farage will never understand it.

Who but a patriotic psychopath would want to be governed by an authority with the four part track record listed above extended into other areas?

SoD

SoD,

I'd wager more Brits will notice the likely economic difficulties ahead more than the state of social programs.

http://www.businessinsider.com/unemployment-uk-deutsche-bank-brexit-2017-9

http://uk.reuters.com/business/economy

Be a bit of both, I think, Bob.

Some other categories of vulnerable Brits in the charge of HMG who've been, are, or will be, routinely abused and exterminated will come out in the media.

And no doubt many more of the ones in the same categories that already have been routinely exterminated or abused too. A friend of mine who has worked in social services said long ago that Rotherham was the tip of the iceberg, so there's more to come.

I mean, tower block dwellers have only recently been added to the list of abused and exterminated under the charge of the Construction Planning department of HMG, oops, I forgot them! Add them to the overview comment in the list above ...

- Construction Planning - Rampant property inflation denying access to home ownership for most Brits; tower block dwellers living in high-rise Jenga stacks built out of firelighters.

The Brits have, I grant you, become numb and insensitive to the HMG abuses and exterminations that have constituted "social policy" for the last 75 years, so repetitive and incessant, like the news, the impact has worn off. Another bunch of wrinklies snuffed out here. Another bunch of young girlies used as masturbation rags for Asian men there. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind - but let's give the organisation that did all that some more control over stuff!

Incredible though it may seem, that has just happened; it is the meaning of Brexit.

But I see where you're coming from: When the economics hits the Brits in the pocket, then they might start asking a few questions. Or more likely, tearing Brit cities apart like they did when their pockets got emptied by the credit crunch a few years back.

And we only need a 2% swing and we're back in the fight.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

SoD

SoD, when will you put your money where your mouth is and just emigrate to Prague?

David, you're joking, but a lot of people with training like L's will be emigrating to the continent. We're probably looking forward to snagging some here as well, like back in the '80's when GB suffered a brain drain.

BTW, it's amusing that Boris Johnson is making noise about challenging May. Will GB go the full Trump?

No joke, Bob, and as for Boris, read my next post.

SoD,

The situation here in the US is a bit more complicated. We never had the social cohesiveness of GB, or any other country based mostly on common ancestry or history. There are probably an equal or higher percentage of people abused by the government, but it's based on ethnicity as well as social class. Private interests are equally if not more abusive. The same numbness to inequality under the law is pervasive here too. However, everyone notices and everything gets worse when the economy turns down.

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