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Saturday, 23 June 2018

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Who knows, but the world order do need a damn good shaking. The collapse of the USSR may have been the worst thing that happened in the 20th century...right behind the birth of the USSR.

"Why Does a Nation of 320 Million Need Millions of More Immigrants?

I’m so old, I remember when the left was still obsessed with zero population growth."

Anybody else recognize this peculiar circumstance?

The world order did not need a good shaking.

It needed leaving alone and appreciating: The prosperity, the security, the freedom.

Instead a bunch of half-witted old farts and dreamers, never happy with the reality that the "least worst" is the best you can get out of this world, decided to conduct two experiments: Brexit and Trump.

And here we are.

SoD

To paraphrase somebody or other, “Econimics was invented to make Astrology look legit”.

David linking the NYT? I've seen everything now. Trump is a symptom. The voters are not stupid and recognize their own plights. Most aren't informed enough to realize why they're where they are, but this outcome has been building for 45 years. Plenty of Americans have plenty to be unhappy about:

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/06/22/UN-report-With-40M-in-poverty-US-most-unequal-developed-nation/8671529664548/

Politicians of both parties made decisions about how to promote globalization and muffed it. Badly. Hence Trumpism and Brexit.

A nation of 320 million needs more immigrants to maintain the current structure of the economy and continue to bring innovation. The US has always been a nation of immigrants. The conservative position would seem to be to conserve that.

The US has always been a nation of immigrants.

Perhaps it's time for a change?

BOE, well timed and well said! We no longer are a nation in need of building by willing legal immigrants who come with hope and a willingness to work and sacrifice. We have a trickle of proper legal immigrants who come and go through the process to become citizens. Then we have visa overstays---against the law---who burrow in the shadows and hope for amnesty someday.

Then we have more recent times, waves of illegals trying to crash our border, hide and hope for amnesty. These groups have now been politicized. So what we have today is what has happened for 200 years- the Democratic party trafficking in brown skinned people for political power.

BOE and Whitewall,

On what evidence do you make your case?

While you guys are thinking about it, here are a few successful immigrants (some also "job creators") not picking produce or digging ditches:

Albert Einstein - no explanation needed
Sergey Brin - co-founder of Google
Levi Strauss - clothing
Dikembe Mutombo - best shot-blocking NBA player of all time
Joseph Pulitzer - journalism
Rupert Murdoch - entertainment
Liz Claiborne - fashion entrepreneur
Jan Koum - co-founder of Facebook
Isabel Allende - literature
Oscar de la Renta - fashion entrepreneur
Steve Chen & Jawed Karim - founders of YouTube
Arianna Huffington - news and entertainment
Mariano Rivera - one of the best MLB pitchers
Arnold Schwarzenegger - no explanation needed

Bob, for Christ sake, don't be dense. Give me more of those individuals and we will all be fine. You know goddam good and well what "immigration" we are talking about and what is roiling the Democrat party and the media-pardon the repetition - with faux OUTRAGE. This is illegal immigration we are dealing with, uneducated unskilled needy people from s---hole countries in Central America. I know these countries well from personal experience.

BOE is right. Time for a change. Like Abe Lincoln once wrote: paraphrase- the best way to repeal a bad or unpopular law is to enforce it.

Whitewall,

Calm down, dear boy. For starters, immigration of all types has gone up and down sporadically (from Wikipedia):

Decade Average per year

1890-99 369,100
1900-09 745,100
1910-19 634,400
1920-29 429,600
1930–39 69,900
1940–49 85,700
1950–59 249,900
1960–69 321,400
1970–79 424,800
1980–89 624,400
1990–99 977,500
2000–09 1,029,900
2010–16 1,054,000

Obviously a big increase started in the 1970's. Now compare that to world population:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

The increase is only in raw numbers, not as a percentage of population.

Secondly, much of the recent influx is asylum seeking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_the_United_States

US law protects immigrants that seek asylum here. They are not illegal.

Thirdly, immigrants are not taking jobs from any but the most unskilled members of our society. We can agree that's a problem that should be addressed, but to put all the blame on immigrants and none on the businesses that employ them is meaningless except in a political context. Try not to believe everything you hear on Fox News or from Donald freaking Trump.

We are dealing with here and now. I'm interested in our border, not the world. The 'asylum' stuff is bogus, it is coached by previous illegals who have learned the ropes and let the folks back home know what to say. The blame is first and foremost on those illegals trying to crash our border hoping to overwhelm the authorities. There is the attraction of jobs and employers who illegally hire them, just like the drug business ships coke into the US because there is demand. Both are illegal. Our laws must be enforced and our border closed and secured. Those here illegally must be sent back. If not, all of Central America will be here as will half of Mexico.

All right. Immigrants are a higher percentage of the US population since 1970. You're right there. However, the percentage has been higher, and the '70's were a historic low (see page 3):

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pdf/cspan_fb_slides.pdf

Everyone (except Libertarians) agrees borders need to be controlled. No argument there. The discomfort some feel that their country is being "taken away" is real. However, the use of immigrants to paint a picture of invading hordes to use as a political wedge is dishonest at the least. I would say it's despicable, but that's just me.

Where asylum seekers and especially children are concerned, how do you know which of them will grow up to be the next tech innovator, award-winning artist or successful entrepreneur?

Sorry I forgot to work this into my comment above. There is another reason to allow immigration.:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/06/30/the-u-s-fertility-rate-just-hit-a-historic-low-why-some-demographers-are-freaking-out/

Ariana Eunjung Cha. That's some name, eh? Greek and Chinese?

I don't object to legal immigration because it is well, legal. Also some is and has always been healthy. My sister-in-law is third generation from Poland in the early 20th century wave. I object to waves of low skill low education masses from anywhere. We don't need them. It was you that mentioned a UN report about the high and increasing rate of poverty in America. Millions more dirt poor newcomers will not be a solution. As far as waves as a wedge issue...you better believe it is a wedge and now a weapon and you can get all smug and call it dishonest and despicable if you like. For me it is a true fact and this wave is aided and abetted by the Mexican cartels and the human trafficers among this last and every wave of Hispanics crashing the border with bogus asylum seekers. Many of these newest children don't know who those adults are posing as parents. Unaccompanied children are ripe targets for the worst kind of people but they are useful for the network cameras when they arrive here.

I no more know which of these illegal children will be a star than you know which one might grow up a criminal and murder one of your family. The children are pawns.

Maybe you've heard of this somewhere, Whitewall:

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Obviously a smug, leftist sentiment, huh? Does Trump ever say anything you don't believe?

The crime rate among immigrants of all kinds is lower than that of the previously existing portion of the population:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/

Whitewall,

Since I don't know much about British defense capabilities I'll just add here that there's another one: "E pluribus unum". In Latin it means, more or less, "out of many, one". Wow. What commie collective do you suppose came up with that?

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