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Tuesday, 15 August 2006

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David

You would waste a bullet on such as that. Your soliders in Afiganistan can make better use of it.

And a rope is reusable. With the bonus of being environmentally correct.

But if you want to shoot I know several US politicans who could be lined up front to back with them for similar reasons and get several for the price of one.

Thanks, Hank, as you will have gathered I was in a bit of a crosspatch mood last night. This campaign to pardon men shot for cowardice in WWI has been rumbling on for years but Defence Ministers hitherto have stoutly refused to succumb to contemporary sentimentality and change history. It is a sign of the times that today's incumbent surrendered without even a show of resistance.

I suppose next we shall have to apologise to Zimbabwe for colonising it and making it one of the most wealthy countries in Africa when we should have handed it over to 'Mad' Mugabe even earlier than we did so that he could 'set his people free'!

Fuck you, you prick. You have never gone to war and are snivelling cunt. To think that these many of these people sacrificed a great deal and many of their cmrades in arms for fuck all in a bourgeois imperialist adventure so that sick fucks like you could write shite almost a century later. Go fucking die!

I apologise for the comment above. Poor fellow has brain damage from a truncheon laid about his ear by an over-enthusiastic constable in the execution of his duty whilst policing a demo in protest against, oh, I don't know, probably some "bourgeois imperialist adventure", I expect.

'No heed is paid to the diminution of the sacrifice of those who did stick it out'

Erm - 11/11, at 11am, every single year. War memorials, in every village and town. The Cenotaph. Endless books , films, and TV and radio documentaries. Special coverage of the Somme in every paper.

As to todays news. Those few poor hundred souls who volunteered, then were shattered after 2 years of war and then shot like dogs have after 90 years been pardoned which is an act of belated compassion to heal the deep, unwarranted shame felt by their families & to symbolically accept the injustice of their punishment for being mentally wounded.If you can make it right, now, why not? What harm does it do, and what good might it do?

If you, Duff, cannot grasp the reality of debilitating mental wounds, then why are you talking about officers 'who quietly covered up for thousands of their men who could simply soldier no more'?

You clearly an, and this post makes no sense at all, does it?

So. Another incoherent, illogical, ignorant and spiteful post from you who I gather is old enough to know better. As to your comment, I didn't pass it, as I saw no merit in it.It seemed to be puerile trolling. I wonder why you even bothered to visit my site? I popped in here out of curiosity. I shan't bother returning.

Just in case you do decide come back, after all, Rachel, you'll see that the original post reads "diminution of the sacrifice," not "sacrifice." That's the point.

As to the Armistice Day service, it may go on in villages across the country, but in some places at least it's becoming increasingly wet. My father (who *did* do National Service in 1945, if this counts as some sort of qualification) would love to have the Last Post, "Oh Valiant Hearts" and the one that goes to the tune of the Dambusters March; what we actually get these days are vague, non-contentious prayers for peace and reconciliation, same as every other Sunday in the year, and songs which are sort of "free verse set to music" about being deeply sorry and living in harmony with one another, which (not being able to see) my father doesn't know, and can't sing.

"an act of belated compassion to heal the deep, unwarranted shame felt by their families & to symbolically accept the injustice of their punishment for being mentally wounded"

So, not a cynical act to get themselves some good publicity, at a time when they are getting a kicking in the press, by indulging the modern habit of over-emphasising 'feelings' over everything else?

Well, if you say so....

Oh, and, 'i wish you death' - you are hogging more than your fair share of obscenities in your post.

Please leave some for those of us who might be visiting the Guardian's online service later... :)

I especially liked your scathing "we know better than our forefathers" phrase, that struck a chord with me, as the same phrase has struck my mind about many aspects of our "modern thinking" on various issues recently.
It's as if the entire history of human civilisation stands accused of being so immoral, so wrong, so "unenlightened", all the way from the fucking year dot right up until about 1990 or so, when all of a sudden, Hallelujah! The truth suddenly dawned upon us from on high! Sound the trumpets! Suddenly, we know it all! All war is wrong! The solemn commandments of anti racism/sexism/risk-ism and above all, multi-cultural tolerance, have been revealed! My God, how on earth did humanity survive for so long, how could our grandparents have lived in such primordial ignorance of these eternal truths?
Unless....unless...(whisper)...our forefathers had it right all along, and it is this generation whose idea of "morality" is totally screwed? I mean, ask yourself - these days, poor Private Tommy is more likely to be court martialled for the "crime" of shooting at a terrorist suspect. As for "cowardice", the reward will be a string of TV interviews and a glowing front-page leader in The Independent. "Oh yes, and, while you're live on air, Tommy, could you please try and mention something about how Israel is a fascist evil warmongering state? You will? Thank you!"

PS, it never ceases to amaze/amuse me how it's always the snivelling Lefties (those who are SO vocal about "Blair's erosion of our civil liberties, whinge blah whinge") that choose to ban comments on their blogs expressing differing opinions to theirs, while it's generally the so-called "right-wing Nazi" bloggers such as myself (I won't categorise you as such, David, as that would be dragging you into an argument you didn't start) who freely allow anyone to say anything they wish, in the comments, even if it's on the level of "fuck you, you prick". (I mean, come on, all that's needed to deal with hecklers is a quick humourous put-down?) Perhaps certain people are scared of actually engaging in honest debate about the issues, and prefer to maintain a little Islington clique of fawning hunnies, "Ooooh, you're SO right, daaaahling, I feeeel for you, lovie"!! [beeep---beeep---censored!]

Careful there, Tom. You'll get your comment deleted around these parts for that kind of language, no kidding.

A bit late on this thread, I've been away. In Zimbabwe as it happens, which is what made me post, although on a change of subject. Yes, we should apologise for colonising Zimbabwe, and everywhere else we ruined with our arrogance. Mugabe is well besides the point and singling out that situation is extremely ignorant and blinkered. We should apologise to the Chagossians, the Irish, the Indians, Native Americans, and every other people we raped. Precisely why we should apologise to the Iraqis for creating and supporting Saddam and now for using him as an excuse to continue with making the world England. And the reason we should do this is because we DO know better than our forefathers. Bringing this to the topic here, we no longer shoot people for cowardice. Nor should we. We no longer execute people, nor should we. We no longer torture people into confessions. Nor should we. But we still colonise, calling it making the world free, rather than making it England.

David, we have a bloody and disgusting past, distant and recent and no amount of bravado and belligerent loyalty to the crown can absolve us of it. Yes, we should apologise, but more importantly we should change. If apologising for past atrocities, and those shooting were atrocities, is any small part of that, then I applaud it. Making their families feel better is no reflection upon other soldiers. Further, you've ignored entirely their months and years fighting prior to their executions.

"We no longer torture people into confessions"

Nah, we just contract that stuff out to Uzbekistan now. Aren't we enlightened.

There are occasions during blog discussions when the gulf between the interlocutors is so enormous and the perceptions upon which their opinions are held are so exactly opposite to each other that virtually no dialogue can take place.

Simon Metz and I provide the perfect example of that phenomonon. Perhaps that clever Dr. David Deutsche is right after all with his apparently potty theories of parallel universes, because to all intents and purposes, Simon and I inhabit different ones from each other.

Such is Simon's fierce fundamentalist belief in his world view that he almost had me shaking my head and wondering whether I had got it all wrong, but happily, his volubility undid him. In amongst his list of passionate assertions he claimed that we "DO know better than our forefathers". No we do not! We know *different* things from our forefathers and they, in turn, knew things which we do not today, but "better" is not an accurate adjective to describe our differing states of knowledge. Nor, I am happy to predict, will my great-great-grandson know "better" than me or Simon, come to that, because human nature goes on forever. In my amateurish study of history I can see no difference between the behaviour of ancient Greeks and Romans, and latter-day Brits and Americans and anyone else you care to name. It's the 'same old, same old'. And comfortingly, it is not all bad because it is the 'same old, same old' mix of good, bad and indifferent. So I think we can safely despatch Simon's thundering Old Testament-style injunction for us all to 'repent before we die' into that obscure corner inhabited by soothsayers, nutcases and plain old eccentrics.

As for Barry, I can only hope he is right and that we do sub-contract our torturing to others - rather shrewd, I call it.

Simon, you're completely ignoring the contribution of the Scots. If any cities have contributed to the spread of Enlightenment values across the globe, I'd put forward Glasgow and Edinburgh as front line contenders. Think of all the distinguished Scots engineers, medics, explorers, captains of industry; think of the Scottish regiments - it is a country that has punched far above its weight in the last couple of centuries. What you ought to be saying is "making the world Britain" ... or are you just being obtuse, to wind up our host?

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