Blog powered by Typepad

« Yet another tall tale from the barrack-room! | Main | Clash of civilisations - Victory! »

Wednesday, 02 August 2006


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Oh David, David, David!

I've come to expect a lot of things of you, but believing in conspiracy theories wasn't one of them!

I suggest you do a bit more reading about this particular story because you're not doing yourself any favours.

Thank you, 'NIB', and, er, is that it ...?

I thought for a minute that blog was going to tell me that Israel hadn't actually killed all those kids and that the bombing never happened. But apparently that's not at issue, so the order of the day is trying to ignore that atrocity by focusing on ... what, exactly? "Interestingly, in this sequence, the pocket radio is missing". What? Are you kidding me? Are those not the corpses of children and toddlers? I think you'll have to work a lot harder than that to distract me from the fact that those children are the innocent victims of Israeli bombs.

This is really low.

Carry On - haven't you heard, it was the Lebanese who blew the building up!

God, some people don't know anything!

I wonder what 'Carry on' would have to say if the *Israelis* spent several hours touting the bodies of dead children around so that the photographers all get good shots?

'Carry on' and 'NIB' should remember that Hizbollah control rigidly the towns and villages in southern Lebanon. Nothing and no-one moves without their say-so. 'Intrepid' journalists are only permitted to go where they are led by Hizbollah minders. Any effort to probe and report on anything untoward and they will not be allowed to go anywhere. I'm not complaining about this, it is excellent tactics; I only permit myself a snigger at the "useful idiots" who swallow these things wholesale, as no doubt, do the Hizbollah propaganda teams.

Whoosh! There goes the point over Duff's head, again.

"Read it and weep!"

I read it and I wept.

Well done and Rosh Limburgh: loathsome creatures indeed.

"I wonder what 'Carry on' would have to say if the *Israelis* spent several hours touting the bodies of dead children around so that the photographers all get good shots?"

Does that EU Referendum site offer any conclusive evidence that anything like this occurred? I couldn't see any. It's the very epitomy of "sound and fury...". It's like one of those Christian Apologetics websites, in that it goes to great lengths to create the appearance of forensic analysis, but actually doesn't establish anything of substance whatsoever. It is of use only to people who REALLY REALLY WANT TO BELIEVE. It's interesting that so many people are linking to the EU Referendum page and using it as "proof" that the children were already dead or that Hizbollah killed them and used them for a photo op. This entire site is designed to aid in the denial of Israel's crimes.

The children in those photos are very, very dead. No amount of sleight of hand over time-stamps and walkie-talkies is going to change that fact. Where is your outrage over that?

I don't "REALLY, REALLY WANT TO BELIEVE" anything, in fact, I disbelieve almost everything I read or see. However I *know* that both sides are also fighting a propaganda war alongside the military war - it was ever thus, particularly in these days of mass, global media with governments involved who are subject to their electorate's whims and sentiments. What one rarely reads is the background to how this war is being fought and that is why we should all be grateful to 'eureferendum'.

If I may reverse the point you make, are you telling us that Hezbollah did *not* mount a photo opportunity exercise? If so, I leave it to others to decide between you and 'eureferendum'.

Finally, I try not to get outraged about aspects of warfare, it clouds one's judgement, and anyway, I have no particular views concerning the middle east except in so far as it effects western interests which seem to me to be best served by a strong and militant Israel keeping a bunch of rascals occupied who might otherwise be turning their attentions further afield (see my post below: "Hello ... hello ... is anyone listening?"

Grateful to Eu Referendum for what? Distracting everyone from the real and substantiated issues? It's really great that everyone can now safely ignore the corpses of those children and instead focus on the comings and goings of Mr Green Helmet. Until the next atrocity, that is, when no doubt EU Referendum and the like will ride to our rescue once again.

I'd be interested to hear you try and summarise the "evidence" for a Hizbollah photo-op, as presented by EU Referendum. You claim that you are sensibly skeptical, but you have somehow read that site and seen in it proof that simply does not amount to a hill of beans. That takes a certain leap of faith, no matter how you slice it.

By way of illustration, here is one of EU's latest posts:

A Red Cross worker fixes his helmet. This, according to our "forensic" media analyst, is evidence that his appearance is of more concern to him than the surrounding disaster. He is obviously putting his hat on "nice and neat" for the camera, and this obviously means that there is "no sense of urgency and no rush".

Let me remind you of the evidence for that unfettered bout of wild speculation: the Red Cross guy FIXED HIS HAT.

This site is a disgrace, and everyone who buys into this rubbish is, at the very least, a very stupid person.

David, your headline says, "One picture is worth a thousand lies!"

What lies are you referring to here?

So...sides in a war try and manipulate the media.

I can't wait for the next brilliant observation here.

BTW - A couple of months ago you posted of a case involving someone convicted of rape and murder in NI, and speculated that they would be out in 15 years.

Turns out they won't getting out at all:

Boo hoo hoo. Dead kids. Read it and weep? Read it and puke, more like.

Those kids are dead because of a terrorist group's actions in launching unprovoked attacks on Israeli civilians, from civilian areas within their own country. Does anyone care to dispute this self-evident fact? The careful stage-management of the images is a part of the conflict, too. If nothing else, the story on the EU Referendum blog demonstrates that what happened after the bombing was a carefully-constructed photo opportunity, and not, as both Hizbollah and The Independent would have us believe, a spontaneous outpouring of grief from a bereaved father. That alone is worth pointing out. The fact that 'Mr White T-shirt' clearly spent some time picking out a suitably photogenic dead body to present to the cameras is highly newsworthy, but I won't hold my breath waiting for journalists to tell us about it. We can perhaps forgive them for this, because Hizbollah would certainly want to 'have a word' with any journalist who departs from their particular news agenda.

David's actual point stands, I'm afraid. Blogs are performing a function that responsible news organisations ought to be taking on. Obvious, maybe, but no more obvious than the crushingly dull platitudes many of the other commenters here keep coming out with.

Question everything, kids. In the end, you might learn something.

Sorry, chaps, been away since Thursday and forgot to tell you.

Anyway, on the subject of journo's being careless with the 'actualite', try this, courtesy of Harry's Place:,7340,L-3286966,00.html#n

"Does anyone care to dispute this self-evident fact?"

You know full well that many people do dispute those "self-evident" facts, but in the interests of not turning the comments into the usual Israel/everyone else spam fest I'll leave it at noting that the actual facts are in fact disputed, and those of us interested in a peaceful outcome are better off starting from this point than taking sides like football supporters. An analogy which isn't totally accurate, as supporters of a football team are often highly critical of the team they support.

Only two tiny points. You can't dispute a "fact", only an interpretation of it.

Secondly, 'Planeshift', you obviously have plenty of time and energy to come over here to chip in your tanner's worth (and you are very welcome so to do) but you don't appear to have the time to respond to comments from me on your own, somewhat indecipherable, site even though you title your post "Duff Strategies". Manners maketh the man!

I didn't think anyone actually read that!

It is only (slightly) indecipherable for Internet Explorer users. No idea why that is the case mind..

Andy M: “Those kids are dead because of a terrorist group's actions in launching unprovoked attacks on Israeli civilians, from civilian areas within their own country. Does anyone care to dispute this self-evident fact?”

“Self-evident fact” is absurd phraseology, of course, but for what it’s worth, Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch disputes the “human shields” claim at the link below, for anyone who has not yet been indoctrinated by anti-Arab racism (i.e. that they would "self-evidently" use their own children as defences from issile attacks) and who is not callously indifferent to the deaths of innocent children (“Boo hoo hoo. Dead kids. Read it and weep? Read it and puke, more like”).,,1834062,00.html

“Israel blames Hizbullah for the massive civilian toll in Lebanon, claiming that they are hiding the rockets they are firing at Israel, in civilian homes, and that they are fighting from within the civilian population. This is a convenient excuse. Human Rights Watch has consistently documented Hizbullah's war crimes, including deliberate and indiscriminate attacks on Israeli civilians, as well as the taking of hostages. But our investigations have not found evidence to support Israeli allegations that Hizbullah are intentionally endangering Lebanese civilians by systematically fighting from civilian positions. We can't exclude the possibility that it happens - but time and again villagers tell us that Hizbullah is fighting from the hills. Meanwhile, the homes hit by Israel have only civilians in them.

“The current Israeli actions are not only wrong, but - short of compelling evidence to the contrary, which so far is nowhere to be found - also war crimes. Israel's leaders, and their friends elsewhere in the world, must face up to that truth.”

The comments to this entry are closed.