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Thursday, 22 January 2009


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You're just trying to make me mad.

May I present I different perspective. I posted a long time ago:>
If we allow torture then we will sink to the level of Osma bin Laden and
his scum. Even when bin Laden loses (which he will in any case) we will lose
even more!

Of course the thing about this issue is it was such a nice club to hit George Bush. But that is gone. Of course the torture done at Gitmo would be entirely acceptable to European justice courts if the "i"’s had been doted correctly or maybe if it was not done on George Bush’s watch. From the Joel Rosenthal:>
The request and the Department of Defense’s response to it have pride of place in the media-driven mythology of what have come to be known as the “torture memos.” The techniques proposed by JTF 170 include several milder “Category I” and “Category II” techniques, such as yelling at a detainee (Category I), requiring a detainee to stand for a maximum of four hours (Category II), and “forced grooming” (i.e. shaving a detainee’s beard against his will — likewise Category II). All these techniques will be approved. Included among the harshest “Category III” techniques, however, JTF 170 requests authorization to threaten detainees with “painful consequences” if they fail to cooperate. As it so happens, this is precisely the method used by German police inspector Ortwin Ennigkeit a mere ten days earlier to obtain the cooperation of Magnus Gäfgen. Following the advice of Department of Defense general counsel William J. Haynes, the request for authorization of this method is . . . refused

More recently, commenting on then candidate Obama’s actions if he wins I stuck my head out.>My predictions. Gitmo will be closed with much fanfare. A few Bush Administration flunkies will be sent to jail. Torture as a means of policy will continue unabated.

I’m right on the first. I may be wrong on the second. The third is still open, except I will not be surprised if it is expanded.

But I still stand by my first comment. The standards of the Europena left may be better than Osama bin Laden's but I still do not want to go there.

'Sister Wolf', I'm not sure whether you mean "mad" in the English sense (insane) or the American (angry) but you may end up both if AQ manage to release some bubonic plague on the west coast of the USA!

Hank, it all depends on what you mean by "torture" which is somewhat like 'love' in that it lies in the eye, or mind, of the beholder! There is a difference between torture and harsh treatment. To recover from the former requires medical assistance; from the latter, only a hot shower, a good meal and a night's sleep. What is important is that people should understand that contrary to the 'sillies' who maintain, against the evidence of history repeated over centuries, that torture does not work, that it certainly does work on the majority of people, and harsh treatment works on enough people to justify its use. Certainly all those who, for whatever reason (some good, some malignant), refuse to allow either technique to be employed, must be honest enough to admit part responsibility for atrocities that might have been averted if indications could have been extracted from prisoners.

Hello David, how are you? Harsh interrogation doesn't work.

Hello, Larry, I'm in spiffing good health, thank you, and I trust you are equally well. (Might as well start the new year with a modicum of courtesy even if we both know it will soon degenerate into a mutual hissy-fit!)

Yes, 'harsh treatment' does work, and I know it does, because I used to apply it.

Pheeeew! All my blood vessels intact. There is an 'Intelligent Designer'!

By the way, I was going to admonish you earlier today for your tardiness in posting over at your place. I know that virtually everything you offer your readership is fit only for the likes of 'Mattie the Woofer' but still, you do have an honoured place on my blog roll and if you are going to limit yourself to one snippet a month, I may have to reconsider. Still, I'm of a kindly and understanding disposition so I do realise that the very new Mrs. 'Teabag' might have prior demands on your time and energy.

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