In a previous post on the subject of Bernard Nathanson, a man I think of as the Dr. Mengele of the abortion butchers' shop, I was sternly rebuked by Gabriel in the comments thread who thundered at me, but perfectly politely, from his own personal Christian pulpit because I had indicated my absolute lack of forgiveness for this wretched man despite the fact that he later repented and became as fervent for pro-life life opinion as he had been whilst keeping himself busy (and rich) yanking bits of babies out of their mothers' wombs. As you can imagine, a fairly lively conversation ensued but was cut short by bloody TypePad interference which automatically shuts down comments threads after a certain period of time. Needless to say I haven't a clue how to rectify it so I thought it was quicker to compose a new post in which I would attempt a riposte to Gabriel's last criticism of my 'Old Testament' outlook.
Let me take some of his salient points in order. He wrote:
That a man may deserve the death penalty has nothing to do with forgiving him if he asks for forgiveness. I am able to forgive you for breaking my window, but it doesn't mean that I will not demand that you pay to repair the damage you have done in order to satisfy justice. I other words, you can forgive someone as they wall to the gallows.
To which I can only ask, what then is 'forgiveness'? I have puzzled over this word and its meaning without result and can only phrase the dilemma in a series of question;
a: Is it that you 'forgive' a villain his trespasses such that, were you to meet him in a pub later on, you would buy him a drink? That is not as frivolous as it may sound because surely such a wholehearted stance is required by the word 'forgiveness'. Anything less is only part-forgiveness.
b: Or does 'forgiveness' just mean that you will forego all personal revenge and leave matters to the law. Again, somehow that does not quite express the full meaning of the word. You still hate the guy but prefer the hangman to do your job for you!
c: But supposing, as a Christian, you forgive the evil-doer completely and utterly. Does not that infringe on a responsibility which lies entirely with God? Surely, it is not up to us to forgive, it is up to God.
Then Gabriel reminded me that what Nathanson did was completely legal, a non-sequiter of epic proportions. What has mere legality to do with this matter, I thought we were discussing morals. He then suggests that my anger should be directed at the Supreme Court and, by implication, everyone who aided the passing of legislation that permitted Nathanson's activities. To which I can only reply - it is, and I do!
Then Gabriel moved on to my lack of belief, or faith, in the existence of a God. Happily, he tells me, I do not require faith despite every priest of every denomination I have ever known constantly calling on their flock to 'have faith'. No, no, he tells me, the 'proof' can be reasoned out:
1) If nothing existed 500 trillion billion years ago, nothing would exist now, simply because it is impossible for "nothingness" to bring anything into existence. Thus, something always had to exist (because here we are today.)
2) In order for something to have a beginning it must exist in time. Therefore, if something always existed, it is outside of time. Philosophers call this "an eternal state" where there is no past, no future, but just an "eternal now" Scientists today will tell you that before the "Big Bang", "time" and "matter" simply did not exist.
3) The fact that the universe is comprehensible through the language of mathematics is and that man can intellectually grasp the laws which govern the universe is an important key.
Therefore the Cause of the universe is:
1) Outside of time (Eternal)
2) Outside of matter (Spiritual)
3) Rational (A Producer of an intellectually comprehensible universe)
Thus, the universe is timeless, so bang goes the, er, Big Bang theory! Well, as it happens I gather that some scientists are already having doubts on that one. In his second point he confuses, I think, two entities, matter/energy and time. I agree that in the very nano-second matter/energy is produced then time begins, because time is measurement and you can only measure something that exists. But if he is correct that matter/energy have always existed then it follows that time has always existed - the two go together hand in hand, indivisible - until of course, that wretched 2nd Law of Thermodynamics has its wicked way and all energy ceases, at which point all time ceases because there is nothing to measure. Gabriel touched a sympathetic nerve with me by the way he stressed the importance of mathematics. It is indeed the very keystone to our understanding, despite the fact that at the moment it merely serves to underline how much we do not know, rather like a man lighting a match in a cave as big as St. Pauls and trying thus to understand where he is. He also rather spoils his argument by suggesting that the universe is rational, to which I can only respond with one expression - irrational numbers! And as for 'harmony', again, without wishing to become bogged down in details, I would simply remind him of the correctly named Chaos Theory. Yet again, I would remind him that if the Big Bang theory is correct, part of what permitted the eventual cohesion of sub-atomic particles which eventually led to the existence of planets and stars was their very slight dis-harmony as they flew away in the explosion. None of any of this offers the slightest proof of the existence of a God.
Gabriel then moves on to the sort of arguments I might aim at atheists, that is, the nature of life and how it began - that is what I call, in an attempt at humour, Phase II of creation! Like the beginnings of matter/energy, I have found no satisfactory explanation as to how life began. That is not to say that one day there will not be such an explanation but I can only take the world as I find it today.
Gabriel then proposes the notion of 'soul'. According to him "all living things" possess a soul which, given the selfish, false friendship of my cat who would sit by cleaning its ears as a burglar murdered me, I find hard to accept let alone define. I mean, what sort of 'soul' does a fir tree own? Or a frog? According to Gabriel, Man's soul lies in his ability to reason, but surely that is a product of his brain which in turn is the product of evolution, so if Gabriel is right then the nature of Man's soul has changed over the millennia.
Sorry, Gabriel, but I remain unconvinced. Mind you, ten minutes listening to that mouth-foamer, Richard Dawkins, might swing me your way!
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