Immigration: how was it for you?

There was an interesting conversation over at waka waka waka, the site of my old e-pal, Malcolm Pollack, which began on the subject of Danny Boyle's production which opened the Olympic games but moved on rapidly to the subject of immigration and whether it is 'A Good Thing' or 'A Bad Thing'.  Now I cannot get the damned subject out of my mind - not that I have managed to come to any definitive conclusion, mind you!

To start with, I'm not at all sure how, and with what, you measure the cost/benefits.  There are obvious costs in schooling, in welfare benefits and in medical services for this fairly hefty influx of people.  On the other hand, most of them work (in direct contrast to our own home-grown under-class), start businesses, pay taxes, raise families which, again in contrast to much of English society, are imbued with a strong family ethic.  Looking back, I suppose the first modern influx were the Jews fleeing this or that European maniac.  I don't think anyone could say that was anything other than a superb gift to this country.  The contribution of the Jews to the scientific and artistic and indeed just about every aspect of our society has been tremendous. 

After them came the Caribbean blacks in the '50s and '60s.  They may not have contributed so much to the intellectual life of Britain but they have certainly raised the standards of sporting achievements.  And again, most of them worked hard and contributed to society.  It is perhaps an ironic commentary upon the success with which they have melded into the home-grown population that last year's riots were very definitely an 'equal opportunities' exercise with black and white 'youfs' and 'youfettes' working well together!  That their young people have proved such a disappointment to their hard-working immigrant parents is, of course, entirely the fault of the white, well-meaning, infantile and utterly malignant influence of what I call the 'Polly Toynbee Tendency'!  The fact that more and more Caribbean parents are sending their children to school back in their old Islands says it all.

Next along was the Asian invasion.  This, I think, needs to be divided between the Hindus and the Muslims.  The Hindus flocked in first when many of them were expelled from Uganda.  Again, somewhat like the Jews, they have definitely been a major contributor to British life particularly in the world of business.  By and large they keep themselves and their communities to themselves and I suspect, but cannot prove, that many (most?), whilst all too well aware of the bad things in British society, are simply grateful to be living in a sytem which is fairly stable, prosperous and with a rule of law.

Finally, we have the mass Muslim invasion.  This has proved more difficult, not so much, I think, because of the immigrants themselves but because they 'represent', so to speak, troublesome, difficult countries which are very different from the UK.  On top of that, they are imbued with a fairly militant religion which senses that it is under threat (which it is, in the long run) and is therefore all the more fierce.  This has co-incided with international tensions between, using the shorthand, 'the west' and 'the Muslim east'.  However, once again, it is a truly remarkable, one might say 'miraculous', fact that this influx has passed off so well.  Of course, there are troubles and tensions and fights and occasional hard violence, but given the scale of the numbers involved it is quite extraordinary that it has been so peaceful!  Even the terrorist influence has been minimal with just a few young men doing what all young men dream of doing, fighting for this or that cause. 

What is often over-looked is the effect we are having on them!  There is a case currently active in the courts in which a Muslim father and his wife are facing charges over the alleged murder of one of his daughters who failed to abide by paternal, male discipline.  I have no idea if the man is guilty or not but his predicament moves me to pity.  I really do not wish to use the old cliche that it resembles 'a Shakespearean tragedy' - except that it does!  Here is an obviously proud, fierce man imbued with the traditions of his ethnicity and religion brought to a blazing rage by a daughter subverted (in his eyes) by western notions of individual liberty, a concept utterly foreign and repugnant to him.  I repeat, I do not know whether he went as far as murder, but the end result is the same, his family and his life have been destroyed.  He must wonder if he might not have been better off remaining in Pakistan!

All these musings, of course, like everything else on this blog, take us nowhere definite.  Mass global shifts in populations will continue for exactly the same reason that dogs lick their bollocks, because they can!  How they turn out in this or that particular country depends entirely on the nature of the host country concerned.  For Britain, I suppose all that one can say, very tentatively, is so far so good!

 

Comments

[Whyaxye]

"What is often over-looked is the effect we are having on them!"

Let's keep over-looking it, shall we? Like you, I think of immigration as a mixed blessing. But the groups and individuals who have tried to play it by our rules and do well by our standards are the ones who have done well. Some West Indian families remind me of upright presbyterians, with their rectitude and modesty. Ugandan Asians are so often like hard-working Victorian capitalists. But I can't be bothered to feel any sympathy for fathers who abuse children because that's the way things are done in some other nation of bigots.

Not that the case Mr. Duff alludes to is necessarily in that category, of course. I would like to make it clear to Messr.s Whyte, Lippe, and Tremblin that my thoughts are entirely in the abstract, and do not refer to any actual current court cases.

[backofanenvelope]

What always amuses me is that the incomers are hammered for not integrating. No one ever seems to wonder if we (the English) want to integrate with these people.

[Whyaxye]

Update: the verdict is in. Messr.s Whyte, Lippe, & Tremblin will now allow me to say that the Ahmed family would indeed have benefitted from a little more assimilation and the acceptance of some British standards of decency.

[Able]

I'm not sure I have an issue with the immigrants per se, but with the Toynbees who have changed society, given preferential treatment to those whose ideologies are in direct conflict with our own and actively undermine and attack every institution, practice and social and cultural practice which represented what being British was, all in the name of 'multiculturalism' (buying votes).

Almost every issue arising from the mass immigration (of course made worse by their immediate access, preferentially, to housing and benefits) has arisen due to the lack of any incentive to integrate. The farce that is policies on Racism, Equality and Diversity, Human Rights, etc. have all been designed to elevate the immigrants over the native population (I won't mention how they are treated in the 'Justice' system, as I start foaming at the mouth).

The thing is, I've grown to believe it's intentional. The result? Well, I can no longer bring myself to challenge, or argue against, foreign friends who describe my country of birth as 'The Country formerly known as Great Britain'.

Sigh!

[David Duff]

'W', I have just received the following URGENT e-mail:

Dear Sir,
It has come to our attention that one of your correspondents referred to this distinguished firm of solicitors as "Whyte, Lyppe and Tremblin". We must point out with considerable vigor that the name of our partnership is always expressed with the use of an ampersand. This provides us with the sort of gravitas demanded amongst the higher reaches of the legal fraternity and which go to justify our even higher charges. Please correct your correspondent with immediate effect - or else!
Yours, Whyte, Lippe & Tremblin"

Now see what you've done!

[David Duff]

Alas, 'W', murder most foul is part of the human condition irrespective of ethnicity.

'Envelope', I always wonder exactly what is meant by the word 'integrate'? Provided they (and us, come to that) abide by the laws of the land then that is all I require.

Able, I feel your pain! Alas, the 'Toynbee Tendency' has been wicked and to me it is all the more surprising that the different immigrant groups have managed, just, to rub along. Again, 'just rubbing along' is all I require because we can wait a while before affection grows. For example, a few more like that black soldier who won the VC will do more for inter-ethnic relations than anything else.

[Lawrence Duff]

What we need is a greater number of filthy rich immigrants to come and pay their taxes here. A flat rate of 30% (and a high allowance threshold to protect the low-middle earners) would turn Britain into the new Switzerland of Europe (or indeed the world).

Not only would we get their income tax, but their spending and all the tax on that, plus their relocated businesses, their demand for property, and all the tax on those too.

That would balance out the low tax take from the hard-working low income immigrants who are already here, enabling us to reduce the deficit and / or fund services.

But the coalition, oh, you know the rest ...

SoD

[johnd2008]

What puzzles me is why the parents cannot see that their children are bound to pick up western values. If you want to have your children to have arranged marriages, then stay in your own country.

[David Duff]

Quite right, SoD, a little more picking and choosing would not have gone amiss back in the day but that infringes the Holy Writ of the Toynbee Tendency!

I think, John, you have to understand, and even sympathise, with the fact that most people are not that bright. However, on the whole I admire immigrants in that they show enormous courage in foresaking their own society and risking everything in someone else's. It indicates considerable drive and iniative, viertues in short supply these days.

[Wilfred]

It may be helpful if some of the longer term immigrants (those who have been here for several centuries) actually paid the relevant rate tax that they are supposed to. Step forward Messrs Ashcroft et al