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Tuesday, 14 May 2013

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David,

Cameron isn't a Tory. The only choice that we have at the moment is a stark one: 'New Labour or Blue Labour.'

Whatever happens, the left will stay in control. The socialist Titanic is sinking and all the lifeboats have gone. The main debate at the moment seems to be whether to stand on the left or right side of the ship as she goes under. It seems unlikely that the UKIP Carpathia will arrive in time to rescue the passengers, but one can only hope and pray.

Your policy will ensure that the current government continues. Basically, we have had the same government since the fall of Mrs Thatcher in 1990. We need to shake up the whole system and force a re-alignment of the political parties so that we have a proper choice. The only way I can see of doing that is introducing a wild card into the whole system. Luckily, we have one - Mr Farage. Just vote UKIP on every occasion you can - and hope for the best!

Gentlemen, I feel your anguish! However, most of politics is a practical matter. Thus, it is essential to vote UKIP on every election *except* the general election. That way, as we have just seen with wobbly Dave, you exert pressure and secure a change of course but you avoid some of the UKIP second-raters attempting to run the country. Let's be honest, below Farage there is a layer of amateurs most of whom would be putty in the hands of their civil servants - indeed, most of them would barely make competent District councillors!

A layer of amateurs most of whom would be putty in the hands of their civil servants. Just like the current government and opposition. Which is why I suggest voting for UKIP. I don't suggest they will form a government - just force change onto the political class.

In the 1890s, against a background of dissatisfaction with the Tories, a certain Kier Hardie decided that something had to be done...

David, I'm sure that identical arguments to yours were used at the time. "They'll never form a government". "All that you will be doing by voting for them will be splitting the Liberal vote." However in 1906, 29 Labour MPs were elected and I think that we all know what has happened since.

It will be interesting to see if history repeats itself with UKIP.

I agree with Richard Morgan & Backofanenvelope, vote UKIP at every opportunity.

Dave is most certainly not a conservative, he's a Heathite Tory as well as the self proclaimed 'heir to Blair'; two good reasons not to vote for his crew.

The shenanigans over the ERM and Maastricht ended my Conservative voting days. Since then it has been variously Referendum Party, UKIP or NOTA. Thus, being one of Dave's 'closet racist' fruitcakes, the Tories will be waiting a long time for me to return to their fold, if I ever do.

Gentlemen, Labour came to power as a development of a coherent ideology developed through trade union cohesion over nearly a century. Theirs was not a single issue party but a developed, if wrongheaded in places, theory of how society should be arranged. UKIP, until the last few months when it has scrabbled to widen its scope, was a single-issue protest movement. I'm not suggesting that there are absolutely no competent people in it but the fact is that most of them are rank amateurs and they'll have their trousers taken down within days of entering Westminster.

There is absolutely no chance of a referendum before the next election. Cameron is about as committed to it now as he ever will be. So, if it's a referendum you want then, bite the bullet and vote Tory. Anything other than a pure Tory government will see the chances of a referendum disappear before your very eyes!

Paul, sorry, sorry, sorry, you comment was dumped by TypePad into the Spam Bin from whence I have just rescued it. Bloody TypePad!

As to your specific point I would answer it this way: if, like me, you think getting out of the EU is the absolute priority then only a Tory government will probably? possibly? maybe? give you the chance in four year's time. Therefore, I would advise you to hold your nose and vote Tory - despite it all! Just cling to a phrase you probably hold dear in your memory - "There is no alternative"!

I wonder what the odds are on a referendum IF Cameron wins in 2015? Just cast your mind back to the Lisbon treaty affair. Cameron could have told the EU that Brown's signature had no electoral authority and that there WOULD have to be a referendum. He could have said that to them before Brown signed. He didn't. I remember listening to Hague wriggling and jiggling trying to explain why he didn't.

Personally, I don't believe that there will be a referendum, and I also think that if there was one, we would vote to stay in. We should just keep our heads down while the Franco-German alliance goes tango uniform.

As to your last paragraph, I don't just want a referendum, I want a sea change in our political classes that will mean we get a proper choice once more.

BOE, no time now but I think I will give a full post to this topic when I get back this afternoon.

I quite agree with Backofanenvelope's last comment, I'm afraid. I simply do not believe Dave, IF he won the next election, would allow a referendum; he and his acolytes would weasel out of any such commitment.

I also suspect that IF a referendum were to be held, it would be a re-run of the 1975 stitch up, where all the main parties campaigned for 'yes' to staying in and the vast majority of the media, especially the disgraceful BBC, were their cheerleaders. In those circumstances I feel sure the result would be the same, despite what opinion polls indicate now.

No, for me, a conservative from working class origins, the current Tory party needs destroying and a proper Conservative party needs to emerge. Dave, Clarke, Hesseltine et al can join the Lib Dems, where I'm sure they will feel more at home.

Anyway, my vote is of little account, since the constituency where I live is never going to return a Conservative, it's Labour or Plaid, sadly.

P.S. I hope the nasty 'Spambot' doesn't get me again :)

"And remember, if you think things are bad, they can always get worse, and probably will."

Quote from Telegraph blog.

Gentlemen, a new post up above.

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