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Tuesday, 29 July 2014

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BP are of course 60% American owned nowadays I believe,perhaps when the cost of this is borne in to YoMama, they will tell the Hague to piss off too.That's one of the wonderful things about heavy plant and infrastructure, ,o-one is hauling an oil rig anywhere fast, and if they want to steal the product, you just turn off the tap! I wonder how much of Hollands gas comes from Russia?

What girls' blouses those Russkie oligarchs are, they're already tugging at Vlad's impaler on level 2 sanctions!: -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/10993971/Splits-emerging-in-Putins-Russia-as-oligarchs-locked-in-power-struggle-with-Kremlin-hardliners.html

What will they do when level 3 kicks in?

And there was me thinking the Ruffty-Tuffty Russkies were all for going back to eating turnips for the cause!

Nah, globalisation makes softies of us all, and that's a very good thing. He who has softy power, wins.

SoD

The debacle that is Ukraine is as much the EU's fault as it is Putin's. Having said that we in the West have different standards, values and ideas on what constitutes democracy, the rule of law, justice and fair play. If we are to preserve our traditional way of life then we have to stand up to the petty dictators, thuggish regimes and barbaric ideologies; which well out number those that are not. At the height of the West's domination of the world doing so was possible and reasonably effective. The West is no longer dominant and declining and is now by and large lead by politicians who do not have a clue as to what they are about apart from personal aggrandisement and the seeking of personal power and wealth. The West is now being assaulted on many fronts not all external as we have allowed the growth of 5th columns in Western states in the form of Islamic adherents who wish to see their medieval beliefs foisted onto those host nations. Externally Islam is seeking to destroy us and coupled with he likes of China and Russia who have very alien to us ideas as what democracy and rule of law should look like we in the West are up against many adversaries. The West is looking at a very likely Armageddon that so often in the past has afflicted so many empires, civilisations and societies the most comparable of which is that of the Western Roman empire. Can we avoid this fate? I believe not unless we arrest and reverse the left and their associated dim-wits current dominance in political, economic and social thinking. A tall order as they have seduced the population into believing only they can provide security and prosperity for no effort which of course is nonsense and will eventually be seen to be so. However I suspect by then it will be to late.

Ant I agree the future does not look good however the West has an aptitude for total war that the "uncivilized" fail to understand. It will be messy and extremely violent but if history is anything to go by there will still be a healthy West at the end of it. Maybe small but still healthy. As for the others I don't give a shit.

Anyone wishing to push the West into a corner should look at how the Camel humpers have fared against Israel since 1948.

AussieD. Indeed the West does have the capacity for total war but no longer has the hunger to engage in it or if so to engage in it in a way that the outcome will be victory. The left and the other dim-wits have seen to that as the will the ferocity and the attitude to gain total victory has been undermined by their spurious philosophies of unilateralism, humanitarianism and other such debilitating ideals(to victory in war that is, especially against foe who have no aversion to using any means however repulsive to win). Perhaps I should have mentioned the Eastern Roman empire admittedly lasting circa 1000 years longer than the Western one. Camel humpers eventually put paid to them did they not(hastened of course by the sacking of Constantinople by Frankish knights 2 centuries prior to it's total collapse. Seems even your friends cannot be trusted not to stab you in the back(Obama anyone))?

@AussieD: "the West has an aptitude for total war"

No mate, sorry, it doesn't.

We may have a little of the hardware for it - much of which we do not really control and dare not use - and a small fraction of the required manpower, but we definitely no longer have the aptitude. We have lost the will to stand up for ourselves and the values we used to believe in. The EU has abolished democracy, and our ignorant, unprincipled politicians are dismantling the Rule of Law as quickly as they dare.

Decades of soft living and the depredations of the left have started the decline, and unlimited third-world immigration will hasten it.

The West is a rotten apple waiting to fall; its fall may yet take a few decades, but fall it will. Our descendants will sit among the ruins, like ancient Saxons bemused by Roman buildings, and wonder who could possibly have done such things, and why they all suddenly gave up. And their Mullahs will explain that it was because we did not do Allah's will.

Hi again David!

I have to point at misconception. We need no eastern Ukraine at all. Yes. AT ALL. But we can't leave unchallenged the existance of counter-russian regime just at the our borders. I suppose you'd also be upset if the power in Ireland was seized by people who on public claim to hang british, and going for (just for example) placement some, say, argentinian military base within its borders.
So basically these part of sanctions is wors and it will touch the citizens one way or another. However one should remember that it will be mutual losses. So it looks qute silly to introduce all these sanctions. Anyway it's up to the Europe. I have already wrtiten it to Richard that the garantee of deescalation and the gradual calming down of the whole situation is the elimination of the USA from the whole process. Look at the map and say which benefits could this country go for so far from its borders?
Another thing is that we just want to safe our borders. I really hope the example with the Ireland is good. So it causes the following - there is no way Russia retreat unless it will feel safety on its borders. No sanctions can help here...

and in addition...
it seems that despite we had signed the energetig charter, it was not ratified. without ratification that document is as worth as a piece of paper. so it is unclear how the court can judge us for what we have not to follow. a very stange justice. anyway I can't imagine anything will be payed. if the ambitions are turned onto Russian property abroad... well... one should not forget that lots of foreign companies have lots of assets in Russia. So if the so-called "justice" goes for extreme measures Russia will just do the same. It's easy to predict that turn of events so I don't understand why it was needed all that stuff with the "court".
Meanwhile fresh news - Russia is building a set of a counter offshore acts - to prevent our companies to get registrated abroad to pay the main taxes there. The Netherlands is the 3-rd Russian companies' largest place of registry. (sorry for some mistakes - i was in a hurry)

"I have already wrtiten it to Richard that the garantee of deescalation and the gradual calming down of the whole situation is the elimination of the USA from the whole process."

Course it is, Alexey. Problem is, from the European perspective, and Britain's, we would have been speaking Russian since 1945 if it wasn't for our friend America.

So let's be clear Alexey: We, the West, are going to destroy your country's regime, as surely as we destroyed the Soviet Union. It won't be quick; a long and lingering strangulation, as it was the last time. And it will be two steps forward, one step back, for us, but in the end the West will triumph. Unfortunately, it won't be just the regime that suffers, but also your country as a whole.

I feel sorry for your ancestors because few, if any, of them voted for their self-destruction. You, however, did.

So you'll get everything you deserve.

And maybe your successors will make it third time lucky.

SoD

Lawrence, I tried to explain the things through the facts and logic but it seems that the discussion is going to fall to the old stereotypes. Thus I am not going to prove anything. The only thing I can't leave without attention is "I feel sorry for your ancestors because few, if any, of them voted for their self-destruction. You, however, did". Actually, I didn't. And nobody did, because everyone wants to live well (switching the logic on and stereotypes are disappearing), nobody is ready to pay his money, to pay by his relative prosperity for "tzar's games" (as you stereotipically consider our foreifn policy). Nobody would let the "tzar" play this games if it actually were just games. So we were imposed.
I am not really sure the Europe will succeed in any type of destroyal of Russia. Only US can try to do it. If, however, chinese don't demand to pay the doubts:)

sorry - surely DEBTS, not doubts

Fascinating discussion, Gentlemen. I would make the following points:

1: Lawrence, I have seen no evidence - yet - of a desire on the part of Russia to extend its influence into areas which are not historically and, from their point of view, strategically important to them.

2: On the other side, I still cannot see a single valid reason for the EU to interfere in Ukrainian internal politics. Alexey suggests Ireland as counter-example but I would suggest Scotland which is about to have a referendum on independence. How would you feel, Lawrence, if Russia offered the Scots Nats huge loans and economic aid if they vote to leave the United Kingdom?

3: On the other hand, I agree with you, Lawrence, that the Putin regime is corrupt from top to bottom and that Russia's economy, especially as Europe moves away from reliance on Russian oil/gas, is headed for disaster - as all corrupt regimes do - see the latest example in Argentina. When its economy hits the bottom then the ordinary Russians and their government will grow violent towards each other - and if history repeats itself then my guess is that the government will win and another Stalin/Tzar will arise even worse than Putin.

4: If that is correct, then all the more reason for us to remain friendly and helpful towards Russia so that we do not give Putin and his gang excuses to whip up anti-Western feelings.

5: As for Ukraine, let me repeat the words of one of Europe's greatest statesmen, Bismarck, speaking of some obscure piece of disputed territory and under pressure to intervene, he said, "Not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian guardsman!" Exactly so!

Russia has had a truly sad history, not just recent but the last several hundred years. There have been some truly talented people in many fields during these years, but it has made little difference to the average Russian.

"1: Lawrence, I have seen no evidence - yet - of a desire on the part of Russia to extend its influence into areas which are not historically and, from their point of view, strategically important to them."

Very apparently David you know nothing of Arkansas' (and by extension, the entirety of the US') dependency on our ability to export from Chickenopolis - damn the EU for not accepting our "chlorinated chicken" - besides, if Putin rejects US chicken, what'll be next, refusing US Astronauts rides to the ISS?!!!

You think I'm kidding?

VPSS may also suspend U.S. poultry imports next week, Interfax news agency said, citing the same service.

Plus - there's Greece's economy to be kept in mind - the linchpin of their ability to repay Angela!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/31/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-food-idUSKBN0G01HE20140731

"chlorinated chicken"! Is that the stuff that old southern colonel with white goatee beard sells all round the world? If so it should have been banned years ago!

David, good points. Nothing to argue with. I'd just like to add that thinking people here are really concerned with poor commodity-driven economy and the possibility of market shrinking. The time is lost and now any fluctuation is dangerous. The irony is that the more severe sanctions should rather help us if we deal with them properly (in this, however, I am not sure).
You also right that all this sanctions and court decision just tune Russians up against the West.

"Chlorinated Chicken ... is that the stuff [I kebabed last weekend]? If so it should have been banned years ago!"

Fortunately David, your betters in your 'Elf 'n Safety 'ave known for ages what's best for you. And for Arkansas Chicken Exports.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1022821/Dirty-US-chicken-washed-chlorine-heading-British-shops-E-C-seeks-improve-relations-America.html

JK, after washing and soaking your chickens, do you hang them on the clothes line?

Nah Whitewall, we airposts 'em (at holidays) or more generally, ships 'em to Britain. Wet, is labeled Kippered. Dry means Smoked.

Depends mostly on which shift of our illegal immigrants're manning the packaging. And whether they've recently washed their hands.

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