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Monday, 29 June 2015

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What we are seeing is a determined effort by the countries of the EU to live in a separate reality. One where the EU and the Euro work. A bit like Boris Johnson's belief that Islamic terrorists are not Muslim.

I hope the Greeks get their referendum. They've hidden under the skirts of their politicians too long, electing reps who offer contradictory, impossible to achieve, "cake and eat it", dream tickets.

We're about to find out if the Greeks have got a pair, or not.

If they vote to stay in and accept Euro vassal status, then the Eurobeast will be greatly strengthened, it's worst challenger having been tamed. Dave will get sweet FA, and I'm thinking we should leave the EU. Dunkirk.

If they vote to leave, the Eurobeast will be hugely weakened, proven to be "reversible", etc., Dave will get a lot more, and I'm thinking we should stay in the EU and impose ourselves. D-Day indeed.

Just mulling ...

SoD

Indeed, BOE, "separate reality" sums it up exactly. What fools they are!

If I were the Greek government, 'which thank the Lord I'm not, sir', I would not rely on the Greek people to vote for 'OUT'. Not least because the Greek government appears to have more tits than a nudist colony!

I like your analogy, although I have no personal experience of nudist colonies. It does illustrate the problem for the Greek electorate though - which would they prefer - the local tits or the EU tits. We, of course, are about to have the same problem in the forthcoming referendum. Extracting ourselves from the EU will be tricky - are our tits up to it?

"The only people not laughing are the Greek people" - and tax-payers all over Europe who will be handed a bill for 100s of billions of euros of unrepayable debts run up by the BCE on their behalf (with so much as a by your leave)

Living in Italy as one does, a ginormous train smash is less welcome than it might be for you lucky fellows on a pension in the UK, as the collateral damage here is likely to be bad, in the context of an already shaky economy.

Despite that my desire to see someone finally kick the brussels junta in the testicles is strong enough to overcome my concern.

I assume they'll have their referendum and vote to accept that which would seem no longer to be on the table, at which it will doubtless be put back on, and brussels will chalk up another victory for brussels style democracy (like soviet democracy but without the gulag and the torture chambers, yet).

Still I am clinging on to the faint hope that the people will be angry enough at their treatment to tell them to f.o. It seems Tsipras is recommending them to and that will be an historiclly important moment in my opinion.

Get you mind of 'tits', BOE, and read the post above dealing with the demise of the Vulcan - you have some expertise, I seem to remember.

I have long been of the opinion, 'Cuffers', that Italy is the lynch pin in the European construction. Like Greece, I don't believe a word of their financial/economic statistics and I have long thought that sooner or later they will be found out. An Italian collapse would definitely bring the whole circus to an end. Viva Italia!

And yes, fully recognising that the Tsipras regime are an obnoxious bunch of opportunist extreme lefties whom one would never for a moment support under normal circumstances.

However the circumstances are far from normal. THe whole crisis has been a disaster for the Greeks from the beginning starting with the outrageous rip off that was the first "bailout". What should have happened was that the bondholders lost their money. I think this could have been achieved without Greece leaving the Euro. Better still they would have left the Euro temprarily on the promise that as soon as they had devalued and got their accounts in order they could rejoin. However that would have caused collateral damage to the northern european banking system so instead the so-called bailouts began. And in fact when Papandreou proposed a referendum which might have led to this he was deposed by Brussels.

3 years and several hundred billion euros later not to mention millions of lives ruined, and thousands of suicides etc etc Greece is no nearer a permanent solution because that was never going to happen.

The Greeks have contributed to their downfall, but have not been allowed to take the correct remedial action, and they have every right to be thoroughly pissed off. The Brussels junta has behaved as disgustingly as any European despot could be expected to, in fact it is hard to exaggerate their despicable-ness. They even managed to corrupt the IMF whose reputation emerges from this farce greatly diminished.

The only good thing that can be said is that now there are no more excuses for not recognising the malevolent incompetence of those who would rule us brussles and with any luck we outers can use the crisis to our advantage.

A great little Gif on the DT feed that explains why the loans never helped the Greek people: -

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CIb4AMuWUAAQyts.mp4

SoD

As Cuffley says "The Greeks ... have not been allowed to take the correct remedial action."

So there's a chilling thought: If the Greeks vote to stay in the Euro, and take the 3 or 6 month deal (or whatever it was the Jerries chucked at them at the end of the negotiations), it's still not the "Correct remedial action", but exactly the same action that got them into the shit in the first place; so we'll be back starting the whole king circus again in, errr, 3-6 months!

Oooohhh noooo!

SoD

"[S]o we'll be back starting the whole king circus again in, errr, 3-6 months!"

Sooner Lawrence. Most probably within a few days after the July vote results are announced. Turmoil - to some degree is inevitable - then your "King Circus 3-6 months" might come to some er, accommodation.
____________

Mind, I don't pay - as that area of danger is not my forte - much attention to that sort of stuff but, others of my acquaintance are insistent. I suppose we ... er, you shall see.

JK, if the Greeks vote No, we have a great opportunity.

UK, USA, the non-EU countries in Europe, and even the non-Euro countries in the EU, have their D-Day opportunity: To Save Private Greece, not with oodles of public money, but with oodles of bankers money, picking up cheap drachma assets to generate growth and jobs, and showing Europe there is an alternative to the continental vision of Europe: The Anglo-Saxon model for Europe.

The continental vision of Europe will then shrivel to a micro core, and we'll gain the Baltic and Med states; no Govt loans to them mind, just free trade and bankers buying assets.

And then the final assault on the Paris Berlin axis: Trillions of debt default by liberated countries onto the reserves of France and Germany. Game over for the fourth time for tyranny in Europe.

As a general wandering around the smouldering ruins of Berlin in 1945 said: "And the flame was extinguished from whence it came."

SoD

Ah yes Lawrence, "[W]e'll gain the Baltic and Med states; no Govt loans to them mind, just free trade and bankers buying assets."

http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2015/06/rapid-reaction.html

Enjoy yourselves but you'll be remembering some ... Lord Duff pre-prepared you a place of, though those places might look a little run-down of late ("nuked" as I recall you Lawrence saying)

but there is remaining a Duff Estates in Arkansas.

Whitewall will be the guy to contact as he's the guy with the tons of drachmas to get you 'n Mom (another ton if Dad's to abandon the Somerset Estate walls) ... at any rate.

Best.

But if the Greeks vote "yes" on Sunday, it's Dunkirk for Blighty.

The great family have deferred to their oldest and most respected, the seed root of us all. How appropriate that she will decide.

Centralized continental, or networked Anglo-Saxon?

After 2,000 years, which one has she in her heart and mind?

Which way will Grand Dame Hellen go?

And for Blighty, will we be getting in the boats ...

or out of them? ...

5/7/15 will be on the podium of important days in the great Western family's history.

SoD

So then Lawrence, y'all UKians'll be launching an amphibious assault on Greece? Yes I get the Dunkirk reference but wasn't that, as much to get y'all away as much from Brussels as it was from France?

And what of The Hero, Jimmy of Glesga - or even, BOE?

You reckon Lawrence you're gonna get your Muslim cohort interested in the overthrow of a country they came to your's to do the same thing?

Good luck with that.

Blighty's political decision whether or not to leave the EU is the same in form as the military decision whether or not to reinforce or withdraw the BEF in 1940. "Politics is war by other means" and "History repeats itself" never had such a fine example.

If the Jerries had fked up, or been unconvincing in combat during, the invasion of France, then we should have reinforced; because they didn't, we ran to Dunkirk, quite rightly.

If the Jerries / Brussels have fked up in Greece, or been unconvincing in negotiation (Grand Dame Hellen decides to leave, others follow, trillions of debt defaulted onto the Jerry and French tax payers), then we should reinforce; if they haven't (Grand Dame Hellen decides to become Euro-Vassal, Frankish empire strengthened for the short term), then we should run, quite rightly.

But we'll be back. of course. Because the Euro-system is not sustainable. In time the grinding economic decline of s single currency without fiscal redistribution will force one of the others to the edge (maybe even Greece again), and then we'll have our D-Day to do then.

Whether to have held on in 1940, do D-Day in 1943, 1944, or 1945 is "same in form" type of decision we are contemplating now.

Only the dafties and cowards contemplate, in defiance of Blighty's historical relationship with Europe unchanged for 2,000 years, is to stick fingers in ears, cover eyes, hold nose, run to the other side of the planet and pretend we can escape our time honoured destiny,

SoD

First paragraph Lawrence lights off "whether" the following two "if" the fourth has the word "grinding" .. 5th "in the same form" and the sixth, "2000 years."

How do your side of the pond (providing they're not sheltering over here) bookies present the odds?

"Time honoured destiny"?
_______________

Now as I've previously stated, this stuff is not "my stuff" but just as an outsider lookin' in I think, I'd prefer being in Naypyidaw for the next month rather than Athens.

Looks to me like a

"it depends"

situation.
________________

Some turmoil but unless the "active Greeks" are getting some kind of remuneration for turmoiling - that shouldn't last long.

Depends I think on what the "Libyan Assault" is doing to Italy.

Again. I guess we'll see. (I don't have a dog in the fight but from where Lawrence I stand, y'alls situation is kinda interesting.)

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