Blog powered by Typepad

« By Jove, I've dunnit, I've really, really dunnit! | Main | Don't worry, you're not drunk! »

Wednesday, 24 February 2016

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

" I have lived in Milborne Port for about 14 years and I had no idea it was such an enormous, higgledy-piggledy, in out and roundabout, maze of a place!"

When you see signs saying "Welcome to Sturminster Newton" you can stop posting.

Thanks for doing your bit, DD.

"Think Churchill, not Chamberlain"

You what?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10436218/David-Cameron-must-embrace-Churchills-vision-of-United-States-of-Europe.html

"We must aim at nothing less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when the Union will be achieved"

Dit-dit-dit-daaaah!

SoD

I'm seeing everything twice.

That, SoD, is a much quoted saying of Churchill in which he did NOT UNDER ANY CIRCS mean to include Great Britain. He just wanted the Germans and the French to stop knocking six bells out of each other. Churchill's favourite union was a romantic one of the English-speaking peoples. Go the bottom of the class!

David, nothing wrong with a doppell post it is just a reminder. We can win the get oot of this mafia organisation as long as the get out campaign stick together. But do not forget that there will be infiltrators pretending they are with us and trying to dig up dirt. The old tried and tested rascist argument will raise its head as usual. The BBC will be doing the government bidding.

Somewhere (Oh, shut it!) I have a book, circa 1946, entitled Union Now! It advocated a union of the USA, Canada, and the UK.Since I favor Texas seceding, and maybe Williamson County after that, I would be heartily opposed to such a lame-brained idea, but it was quite popular in 1946.

How about a Union of all of them - from California to Moscow (once Vlad is hanging upside down from a lamppost in Red Square)?

SoD

Quite right, Michael, these giant conglomerations merely act as an employment agency for politicians who, rightly, should be out of work.

SoD, quite why you think bigger and BIGGER government is "A Good Thing" beats me!

It's because he's a Frogophile!

Churchill's meant for Britain to join in union with all the Bongo-Bongo Lands of our ex-empire! : -

http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html

I'd like to see you stand up in the next Vote Leave meeting and propose a freedom of movement, single market, one state one rep, union with the Commonwealth! You won't be strutting your funky stuff on the streets of Zomerzet for a few weeks after that Churchillian pronouncement!

The point is, Churchill advocated blocks, not isolationism. And if you read that speech, he didn't mean mere trade agreements, he meant one state one rep, open borders, single market, and leave the mere trade agreements for the relationships between blocks.

So if you're a Churchillian, you've got to choose your block. And mine's the West i.e. the English speaking peoples plus Europe.

From that block base, we set to work on Bongo Bongo Land, the Hairies, and the rest, starting with free trade agreements, or open warfare, and everything in between, as the realpolitik suits.

SoD

"SoD, quite why you think bigger and BIGGER government is "A Good Thing" beats me!"

I don't mind how big the block is and how big that makes the block's government. The reason is that the sub-state powers beneath the block power devote a good deal of energy diplomatically kicking the shit out of the block power, and vice versa. Just look at the so called "United" Kingdom, and obviously the EU vs. the nation states. That self-inflicted "Bait and Bleed" leaves me-me-me considerably less lorded over than I would be in a single isolationist state run by a 5 year alternation between Ukipper types and Jeremy Corbyns.

Sometimes 2 is less than 1. For example, 1 unit of matter plus 1 unit of anti-matter is 0.

So it is with power. 1 unit of power plus 1 unit of power is a constant conflict, which yields 0 to an external observer i.e. the third, and smallest, power - me-me-me.

So there is an ironic, counter-intuitive, truth: Two powers are less than one from the perspective of the individual, because of the inevitable struggle between the two powers that will cancel out their strength.

I shall henceforth refer to that as "SoD's principle", so as to distinguish it from "sod's law", and offer it to the annals of realpolitik.

SoD

"single isolationist state run by a 5 year alternation between Ukipper types and Jeremy Corbyns."

If only!

First of all, I am not a Churchillian I am a Duffian! I don't require Great Men to tell me how or what to think, I make up my own mind. Churchill was right about some things and hugely wrong about others.

If you need a lesson in how big governments lead to even bigger and more powerful governments look no further than 'over there' where, as Michael will affirm, Federal Government is overweening in its amorphous power and once established it is "grows and grows like Topsy". I want none of it. I am even prepared to see the break up of the UK, if that's what the Jocks want. Smaller government is better than bigger government.

Well at least we still agree on the ends, if not the means.

As for BOE : -

"'single isolationist state run by a 5 year alternation between Ukipper types and Jeremy Corbyns.' If only!"

I've just spluttered my tea out all over my brand new Microsoft Surface keyboard!

That would have me heading straight to Dover, or Southampton and onto the Mayflower or a convict ship, whichever one of those destinations will have me.

SoD

A democracy depends on having a choice. Just lately there has been little difference between our choices. As to you leaving the country, I expect you'll be like the rest of the people who say that if XXXX is elected they will leave. Other than a few well known Froggies, they never do.

Here's what Churchill actually said:

"We are with Europe but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed. And should any European statesman address us and say “Shall we speak for thee?” we should reply, “Nay, Sir, for we live among our own people”."

That's the stuff!

(And no, I don't have a link. My assistant, Dr. Google, will advise you.)

Andrew,

Which is exactly why we should be in EU Bailey, not the Motte.

And the Eurozone has provided us with the perfect Motte, into which those who wish to travel can do so, but not Blighty. It's the Bailey for us.

If you look at this fantastic diagram someone has done ...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=start+fort&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_w-69-5LLAhVJuhQKHSsFDDsQ_AUICCgC&biw=1536&bih=792#tbm=isch&q=eu+diagram&imgrc=dVGmgL3PFqx5sM%3A

... you'll see it's a sort of fractal "Motte and Bailey castle", with many Bailey's looping around the Motte. In some ways, it's more like one of those Star forts from the age of Gustavus Adolphus ...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=start+fort&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_w-69-5LLAhVJuhQKHSsFDDsQ_AUICCgC&biw=1536&bih=792

So it's really an interesting game of "pin the tail on the donkey": -

In which of those zones - if any - would you Outters like Blighty to be?

In which zone do you think Winnie thought we should be in?

I bet we get as many answers as there are zones. And the more zones, the more agro and time wasting thrust upon our lords and masters, and the more absorbed they are in that, the better is it for me-me-me.

SoD

The comments to this entry are closed.