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Thursday, 18 February 2016

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David,
Although my feelings match yours with regard to Brexit, I fear that there is little point in writing to my MP.

HIS NAME IS DAVID CAMERON.

Better stay in Russia, Richard!

Jeez, I never thought I'd live to see the day: The Gaffer's a fully signed up, door-knocking, leaflet-dropping, Apparatchik.

1970's Britain here we come!

No wonder Corbyn's quietly, privately pro-Brexit ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12158633/Why-Jeremy-Corbyn-could-privately-support-Brexit.html

... he knows without the EU rules and regs, and an imploded Tory party, he can wind back the clock to pre-Thatcher - with the sweet, vengeful, irony of knowing it was right-wing, Brexit, Ukipper foot-soldier types that got him there.

SoD

Lawrence,
My political predictions are (almost)always wrong and I genuinely don't know what is going to happen here. I honestly don't know whether Cameron will get the support of his party and sundry big wigs or not. Is this important though? I think it is fair to say that the only significant opposition to the 'Remain' campaign is coming from the media and not from the Tories. The key point is whether enough of the electorate vote to remain. However, opinion polls are notoriously unreliable as the last general election proved.

I really don't know which way to call this one.

Wind the clock back? It's a long time since I did that!

I do think though, that there should be a series of televised debates, as per the last election, hosted by the Beeb, where both sides of the argument can be heard. Whether this will happen or not is anyone's guess as Cameron seems to be running frightened - again as per the last time.

So, SoD, as your poor old Dad crunches round the frosty streets of downtown Milborne Port, leaning into the freezing wind and desperately trying with my frozen fingers to insert a patriotic pamphlet through sundry letter boxes - who designs those bloody things these days! - whilst a slavering Alsation dog attempts to charge through the door and eat me alive, what exactly are you doing for your country? Sitting in the warm nibbling at your French croissant, I suppose, whilst a gang of democracy-loving(!) Bulgarians, Romanians, Croats led by the Empress of The New Reich with her French poodle yapping at her heels, help themselves to your tax money.

Sucker!

SoD - good to hear from you again, I thought you'd given up sharing your views with your old man's buddies... No really it's genuinely good to hear from you. I don't agree with you of course, your vision (unless you are taking the piss, which actually seems more probable than that you really believe it) is idiotic!

If you believe that the EU is the only thing keeping the UK on a splendidly thatcherite monetary and economic course than I've got a bridge to sell you (plus you probably qualify for state assistance).

To settle any doubts, the other members of the EU, but especially France make no effort to hide their utter disdain for this country, its people, history, values and economy and the relative success we have managed by remaining outside the euro is traumatic for them.

The whole thing is run for the convenience of the French and especially their farmers, and at the expense of more productive workers elsewhere but especially in the protestant countries.

The EU has impoverished half of europe and managed to overrun the other half with frequently militant young men who have shown little enthusiasm to abide by the rules, laws and social mores that make Europe a comparatively pleasant place compared to the shit holes they come from, which are shit largely because they are run by people like them. And we know that because when they were run by us they were rather more pleasant.

So your contention that this bunch of malevolent lazy stupid corrupt and incompetent arses should have any part at all in the government of this sceptre'd isle is, to say the least - well, curious.

Don't waste your breath, Cuffers, he's a terrific computer swot but knows nothing about history and politics!

It's the government of this sceptre'd isle that worries me. At least as much as the EU.

The "bait and bleed" strategy so effectively applied by the West to keep the Sunni and Shia nutters battling each other instead of us, is equally well applied to powers trying to lord it over me - remember it's all about me-me-me at home in the West, and us-us-us elsewhere. Bait and Bleed serves us admirably in both cases.

The battling between HMG and the EU, and now every EU nation state vs. the EU, is so distracting to them they haven't got time to do anything else; nothing gets done - that's great! The result is you get a sort of de facto, accidental, Libertarianism - which is something you wouldn't get if under the unfettered mastery of one of those powers on its own.

Sure you get some straight bananas and a bit of "'elf and safety" from the EU, and a fox hunting ban from HMG. After 4 decades! Where in the world could you have been left alone and so marvellously free of the state as that in the last 40 years? Not perfect, but surely the *least worst* place to be.

Yes, the least worst, and therefore the best, political and economic place in the world to be right now is in the non-Eurozone "Bailey" of the EU "Motte and Bailey" castle.

Drift too far away and the nation state gets you - for Blighty that's back to the 1970's. And do not underestimate the thirst that these huge powerbases in the UK have for that apocalyptical period: Student class, political elite, all public sector workers and management, greens, Sweaties, Hairies, chavs, unions, just about everyone north of Luton, London, and the entire Guardian-BBC metro-wanker-set. Is there anyone else left - aside from the D&N readership - yeeeeesss, quite! Our enviable individual state is a colossal accident as a consequence of the collision, conflict, and distraction (away from me-me-me and you-you-you) between my and your two greatest enemies - HMG and EU. As it is for the West - us-us-us - and the developing Sunni - Shia apocalypse, that's let us retreat from defeat to lick our wounds and scratch our heads without being mercilessly pursued.

Drift too far in and the EU gets you - the Eurozone, etc., etc., blah, blah.

Quietest place in a storm is in the eye - let it blow itself out around you.

Bait and bleed.

SoD

Just seen Dave's cut his deal and got 7 years on EU migrant in work benefits (that's a disgrace, btw, should be given immediately, but that's another story). Two things: -

(1) I wish I'd bought my ISA's today.

(2) I'd spare your shoe leather and give those Zomerzet pavements a rest, coz you're on a road to nowhere.

SoD

Ah well, there's a happy ending, all your Apparatchik labours will carry on long after you've retired to your rooftop garret in a grump.

The latest recruit to the leavers campaign will pick up the street-walking and leaflet dropping for you and the Ukippers - meet your new mate - George effing Galloway!!! : -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12164607/EU-referendum-eu-summit-david-cameron-brexit-live.html#update-20160219-2138

Yep, like Corbyn, he knows which side his bread's buttered, and the fastest route back to the "swinging' seventies".

Here, Kitty-Kitty!


SoD

So, an emphatic no, the panto season is definitely not over.

Just look at that picture and thank God the EU protected us from those two panto-clowns for the last 40 years, ...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bcf6df22-d754-11e5-8887-98e7feb46f27.html#axzz40fB6uXDP

... and just read and inwardly digest the words of that Ukipper in the last paragraph: -

"Mr Galloway’s speech, which focused on sovereignty, was generally well-received among those who remained. “I rarely agree with him, but I’ve always liked him,” said one Ukip supporter from Essex."

SoD

Oh God, you hear nothing from 'SoD' for weeks at a time - then suddenly you get the equivalent of 'War and Peace'! I'm going back to bed!

SoD - 'ang on a minit - when I said it was good to see you back, I didn't mean that good!!

Sorry, been consumed by getting two customers live, one before Xmas and one after, has kept me off air for a while.

I'm lying in bed with a dose of the shits last night and today, so I'm "unburdening a build-up at both ends", so to speak; just noticed the colour of the D&N site these days, mmm.

SoD

"Our enviable individual state is a colossal accident as a consequence of the collision, conflict, and distraction (away from me-me-me and you-you-you) between my and your two greatest enemies - HMG and EU."

While I agree with what you are saying Lawrence over the shittiness of the choices before us I fear that you are missing the point. There is a huge elephant in the room which you are missing completely, and it has a name: Democracy.

At the end of the day, the choice we face is between being governed by a shitty legislative body that is answerable to the people every few years via general election, or a shitty legislative body that has no democratic accountability whatsoever.

This is no longer an argument between left and right. There are infinitely more important issues at stake here, such as self-determination and the future of democracy in Great Britain.

The continued centralization of Europe is relentless and this, taken with the almost complete lack of accountability of unelected legislators in Brussels is something that I for one find deeply disturbing. Profound change will happen, whichever way we vote. If we vote to stay in, centralisation will continue and our Government will become a government in name only. If we vote to leave, there will almost certainly be a period of upheaval, but the Government will remain answerable to us, the people and will retain the ability to legislate in our interests, even when those interests clash with those of Europe.

You have a great faith in democracy, Richard. I see democracy as a mitigation only when Liberty is not available. Electing one bunch of tyrants and replacing them with another is marginally better than having one perpetual tyrant only ever replaceable by civil war, but neither is as good as having no tyrant at all.

It is extremely rare to find a constitution that keeps a small democratic executive and preserves Liberty. The next best is an "accidental Libertarianism", where the freedom of the individual is achieved by the pre-occupation of the tyrants with verbal self -conflict, stalemate, and thereby zero-sum neutralization of those tyrants.

HMG (and now the nation states of the EU) are now locked in perpetual diplomatic conflict with the EU - exactly the scenario for "accidental Libertarianism" we want.

The alternative is a trip back to an unfettered, proactive democracy robbing the individual in the name of the majority to fund its unstoppable spending on patronage and clientalism.

And I don't want that for the duration of what's left of my time on this earth.

SoD

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12166080/George-Galloways-appearance-at-Brexit-campaign-rally-sparks-furore.html

'Mr Galloway, the former Respect MP for Bradford West and previously Poplar and Limehouse, was hailed by Nigel Farage as “without doubt one of the greatest orators in this country, he is a towering figure on the left of British politics.”'

SoD

In fact, isn't it unlucky how "accidental" Liberty seems to have been over human history? Wouldn't it be great if it were constructible?

If you look at the periods and places when Lady Liberty allegedly bestrode the mortal world, you can always find a strong argument for her beautiful presence as having been accidental, not constructed, or deliberate.

19th century Blighty, for example. The only reason me-me-me and you-you-you were left alone at home, as is commonly held to be true of that century and place, was because all the busy-bodies, little Hitlers (and big ones), were all away, bashing the natives of Bongo-Bongo Land.

Revolutionary America, for example. It's quite easy to run your life free on the frontier of the world, coz their ain't no cops and pols to mess with you. But look how transient the experience was once the frontier ran up against the buffers of the Pacific: No sooner than frontier Liberty ran out of route 69, the prez (Lincoln, if I remember rightly), declares of the executive and its thirst for patronage and spend: "So many snouts, and not enough tits".

In fact, there was probably only one decade in the last 2,000 years where "the people" actually deliberately, knowingly, and consequentially enacted a small(er) state, Libertarian, home politic: The Thatcher and Reagan decade of the 1980's.

So the probability of seeing a freshly independent Blighty, with an exuberant and positivist executive, free from the diplomatic conflict with the EU, enacting a small state, free society, is 10 / 2000, or 0.5%, on average, let alone without the weighting of exuberance and positivism.

No wonder Corbyn and Galloway are getting on board the Farage bandwagon; they'll stomach adding "National" to the front of Socialism if it means a chance of getting their hands on the controls.

SoD


Sod, there was and is nothing "accidental" about liberty. It was fought for in a thousand and one disputes over the centuries, or at least, it was in this country. I can't say the same about most of the rest of Europe where the concept is foreign!

Actually Lawrence, I share your misgivings about democracy. Lord Hailsham once described it as 'elective dictatorship' which I think sums it up rather well. However, Winston Churchill was surely making a very good point when he stated that "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

A shitty government Lawrence, will only ever be a shitty government if it can be voted out of office. Even when this is the case, the leaders of governments usually become more arrogant and dictatorial the longer they stay in power. Blair and Thatcher are both good examples of this. However, if the leaders of governments engineer things so that they are no longer responsible to the people, then government morphs into something completely different. It then becomes a dictatorship.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Lawrence, but I get the impression that you approve of the way that the EU is heading and want Britain to remain a part of it. Fine, I have no problems with that at all. However, you have to ask yourself this. How will you feel, and will you do if an unelected European legislative body starts to enforce laws that are damaging to British interests, and that you are strongly against?

Democracy may not be totally wonderful, but it is infinitely better than any of the alternatives currently on offer. I fear that when you and those who share your beliefs finally come to realise this, it will be too late to do anything about it.

"Sod, there was and is nothing "accidental" about liberty. It was fought for in a thousand and one disputes over the centuries, or at least, it was in this country."

A thousand and one disputes between one gangster and another, or for independence of one gangster from another. Oh of course, the victorious gangster and / or independent claimed he was fighting for Liberty, I mean, well, he would, wouldn't he? His Liberty, but not yours or mine.

SoD

"Please correct me if I'm wrong Lawrence, but I get the impression that you approve of the way that the EU is heading and want Britain to remain a part of it."

No, I don't approve of the way the EU is heading, but I do approve of staying in it.

What I like is the EU matter meets the HMG anti-matter and you get nothing, which is a good result.

Remove one or the other and you get something, which is a bad result.

Remove both and you also get the best result, nothing, but that only happens 0.5% of the time, so I'll take my chances with the first option.

SoD

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