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Monday, 27 June 2016

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Good warning. Elites love democracy when they run it. When deprived of running it by the unwashed masses, democracy is an obstacle. The winners should never turn their backs on these political elites nor their media and financial mouthpieces. "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance". Your enemies are among you and close at hand.

It won't happen.

Whoever wishes to press the article 50 button has to get it through parliament first ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-Europe

... And in that they will fail, thereby wrecking their own careers.

I suspect BoJo, Gove, et al will put a fall-guy up for it with a promise of career resurrection a year or two down the line. The fall-guy will call the vote, lose, resign, and BoJo will shrug his shoulders and say "screw the will of the mob, our constitution says no" and it'll be business as usual.

The million or so Brexit-regretters will heave a sigh of relief and say "Thank gawd, we only wanted to register our xenophobia and cause a scare" and it'll be business as usual.

So funnily enough, if the EU shakes up and reforms, Blighty's old string bag democracy might have been a pretty good flier after all.

And worst case, if the fall-guy actually gets it through Parliament and presses the article 50 button, by November the whole effing edifice of Blighty will be so crumbly they'll go for the Norwegian option. And if the EU is sufficiently crumbly by then too, they'll take it.

And the Norgie option is imho the absolute best option, or as Schaeuble calls it, the "Associate Member" option. It keeps Blighty on the straight and narrow with the single market rules and regs with freedom of movement included, and lets her have a go at carving out some trade deals with the Yanks, Chinese, ex-Colonials, etc. It will have the added advantage of being a poke in the eye for the country bumpkins into the bargain.

Thanks JK for your soothing words, I'm breathing better today.

There's a hint of a flicker of light at the end of the tunnel.

SoD

"It is time for the Leave campaign to make clear that ending free movement is off the table, and that this is no bad thing."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/after-brexit-only-one-thing-can-keep-britain-together-the-norway/

Chew on that straw, Worzel Gummidge.

SoD

Against the shifting seas of lowered expectations and attempts to reverse the referendum result you are a mighty rock, David. It will be amusing to see how long it takes you to realize you've been sold empty promises, or if it ever happens at all.

"The insularity of the English, their refusal to take foreigners seriously, is a folly that has to be paid for very heavily from time to time." - George Orwell in "England, Your England"

SoD

The Norway opion has all along been the best arrangement certainly for a transitional period at least, while all the ts are crossed and the is dotted, not quite for the reasons you describe but as we are aware between your opinions and reality there is a rather vast gulf!

But in this case, by a methodology doubtless rather like the infinite number of monkeys with typewriters, you have made a valid point!

But don't confuse that with Associate membership which is something greatly inferior, designed especially for the stroppier members - (Norway is not a member, associate or otherwise).

The UK is often described as someone who has joined a Rugby club and then insists on playing football. A more suitable analogy is that the UK is someone who has joined a rugby club and thinks that the rules should be obeyed. When the rest of the players think the rules are for idiots to follow. The member countries of the EU are both allies and enemies and none of them can be trusted. If only we could remember that.

I voted leave because I wanted to leave. Not because I wanted to stay in as a second class member.

Blimey, an even bolder Remain claim: -

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f2aca88-3c51-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a.html#axzz4CnLXSCjV

There are going to be some stroppy Worzels out there. If I was an MP I'd be investing heavily in Kevlar ("investing" as in what you put on before your shirt in the morning, not the finance meaning).

SoD

SoD, anyone who quotes almost anything from 'The Graun' is likely to be on a loser. Your link, for example, does not work. Why am I not surprised given that it is from a newspaper famous for its typos!

Your dismissal of British democracy painfully accrued over nearly a 1,000 years says more about your historical ignorance than anything could but your love of a political construct whose annual budget has never been signed off by any official auditor since it began simply places you at the bottom of the sucker league. It is not our democracy that requires improvement, it is the EU's total lack of any democracy that needs to be rectified. But of course, you are content to live under a regime which is run by five 'presidents' whom you cannot choose nor can you dismiss.

Perhaps you, too, Bob, need some history lessons. The last three full centuries has seen Britain taking foreigners exceedingly seriously at the cost of huge amounts of blood and treasure.

"Thanks JK for your soothing words, I'm breathing better today."

Figured Loz. Too, sumpin' else to bear in mind, Whenever somebody is losing [whatever] Somebody else is winning [the whatever of the first part]. ... Your mission; should you decide to accept it is, figure out who/what in England is winning then, deflate their tires, cut their phone-lines etc.

David? That mission description should be advised for The Leavers too. Everybody with a lick of sense ought realize "it's the EU stoopid" ("it's the economy stupid" if an example from the US be necessary).

And - read Anna!

http://annaraccoon.com/2016/06/26/a-very-british-revolution/

And another point, SoD, to emphasise the utter non-democracy of the EU is raised by Carola Binney at The Coffee House. If the EU is truly democratic then the leadership that allowed the second biggest economy in the EU to walk out should resign. Do you see any sign that 'Junck the Drunk' is prepared to take any responsibility? Do you see any of the EU leaders (with the honourable exception of the Czech Prime Minister) pointing accusing fingers at him and suggesting he should take a walk? Of course not, they all have their fingers in the lucrative pie!

Sorry, forgot the link:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/cameron-juncker-stayed-shows-us-just-whats-wrong-eu/

JK, I think Anna's a bit off on this.

Blighty doesn't have a written constitution, rather an unwritten one. Written or unwritten, it's still a constitution. And the lawyers are saying the PM alone can't press the article 50 button; rather we have to have a vote in Parliament: -

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-loophole-eu-referendum-mps-law-legal-legislation-constitution-a7105181.html

Also, article 50 says leaving, i.e. activating article 50, can only be accepted by the EU if done so by the leaver in accordance with the leaver's constitution, albeit written or unwritten.

So there's a legal double lock to stop an illegal Brexit: The PM can't do it alone, and if he does, the EU can't accept it.

However, if he were to do it unconstitutionally without a vote in parliament, then the EU would get the right to suspend us. Amazingly this is the only option the EU has to sanction a member; there is no option to actually chuck a state out. The basis for this would be that we had infringed the rule of law under article 7 by attempting to leave in breach of our own (unwritten) constitution: -

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/article-50-brexit-debate-britain-eu

But Blighty'd still be in the EU, albeit suspended.

Therefore, so long as parliament is either (a) never asked to vote on article 7, or, (b) is asked but declines the activation of article 7, we will not be leaving.

Furthermore, there's a political double lock to stop Brexit: What new leader will risk being the one who puts the motion up in parliament and loses, thereby having to resign with their career in tatters? Or, if he / she wins and gets Parliament to sign up to it, the Euros will give them nada and we'll end up on the default "bongo-bongo land" basic WTO t's $ c's after 2 years negotiation, and he / she will take the blame for doing a shit job and their career in tatters (see article above showing why activating article 50 puts the leaver in the weakest negotiating position)?

The only type of person to press the button and face the music would be Farage or equivalent. But since they're unelectable in Parliament, there's no chance of that either.

And when the Brexiteers start whinging about Blighty's democratic system not representing the "will of the people" we can remind them they thought it was the best thing since sliced bread and moaned about the EU being undemocratic!

"All's well that suspends well".

"Accidental Liberty" might have a bit more in her yet.

SoD

David, as an American I would never presume to lecture you about the character of your country. I would point out, however, history claims Orwell was a Brit.

Instead of EU apparently it should be called Hotel California.

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave!

Duffers, have you ever considered performing an intervention on SoD?

All of a sudden verbal race attacks are happening in Britain. The press are all over themselves reporting this. Could it be we voted out!

Jeez, just as I was getting up off the deck and breathing normally, I watch England play football.

JK, whatever you've got to hand please, intravenous is ok too.

SoD

I'm hardwired in Loz, all the way to the nearest mil-uplink (probably why David of Duff finds so many of my comments in Spam) so ...

You sure you can handle intravenous?

How's about UPS (not to be confused with the sometimes "Ups" [Uppers in David-Speak] commentor from near me used to more frequently appear here ... lemme see ... ah yes here:

http://duffandnonsense.typepad.com/duff_nonsense/2013/06/the-sunday-rumble-23613.html

He's doing "pretty good lately" incidentally - spoke with Up2L8 via phone earlier this month.

***

Anyway Loz as I was saying, how 'bout I just send it airmail parcel-post?

'Course you'd probably have to go to Scotland to retrieve anything I'd send. That wouldn't present too much of an inconvenience just now would it?

March winds, April showers, May flowers and June becoming excitingly interesting.

Some historical June facts (?), at least considered by some.

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/historic-june/

Well.

Shiver me timbers there Ups. Good to see yourn again and as usually when we meet wherever/whenever, I reckon I'm reminded to "Stop that JK"

However I think, maybe; I see wot you mean - June is rough for Englishers:

"On June 15, 1215, the rebellious barons met John at Runnymede on the Thames. The king was presented with a document known as the Articles of the Barons, on the basis of which Magna Carta was drawn up. For a document hallowed in history during more than 750 years and frequently cited as a forerunner of the Declaration of Independence and the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, Magna Carta is a singularly undramatic document. It is thorny with problems of feudal law and custom that are largely untranslatable into modern idiom. Still, it was remarkable in many ways, not least because it was not written in a purely baronial interest but aimed to provide protection for all freemen."

Echo Alpha Six Bravo two one niner Ups but, this time, it'a a hard call whether the current crop of Englishers gots it in them.

I guess we'll see.

Tango November Xray.

Very honestly, I always had a sneaking suspicion that the minions (us) would not be allowed to 'get away with it'. I presumed that there would be a 're-count', an ignoring of the result or a 2nd referendum. My money is still on the referendum (I mean, the government would be stupid not to, since a HUGE majority would then change their minds) but instead we will have this faffing around until everyone loses confidence in everything.

I see that our noble leaders, when presented with a crisis, did what any good 'Brit' would do - fled for hills. These are the people who could have taken us through a potential break up of the EU? Mind you, the only reason I would want a 2nd referendum is in protest at the number of liars on our side of the fence. I know all politicians have only a nodding acquaintance with truth, but Farrage was not exactly hiding his lies. Oh wait, they weren't HIS of course. They were someone else's.

Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’

Interesting story in The Mail, although I would act with caution around any news story. I have heard so many "wise after the event" rubbish, that I don't think anyone has a clear picture on what's going on.

The scenario in SoD's first comment above is entirely plausible; I'm almost expecting it.

But in the meantime - the blond buffoon? For PM? You cannot be serious, as John McEnroe used to say. The man's an opportunist dilletante who only came to the Remain side after weeks of swithering, clearly has no plan for the current situation, and is never on top of his brief anyway. Plus, three out of the four nations of the UK hate him heartily. He would be the worst possible candidate.

otoh, if you want a laugh, notice that Nicola Sturgeon is holding talks with Gibraltar (!) to see whether together they can thwart the will of the British people. It must be the first time she's ever mentioned the place except to despise and disparage it. Such Chutzpah!

Whitewall, how right you are in the first comment. The media are spinning racism and the economy. Anti democrats have converged on Parliament tonight in a social media orchestrated event. Those of us who voted leave are being subtly attacked and it is bring orchestrated.

It's having an effect though. Banks are considering withdrawing loans from certain places. Leaves certain companies without the ability to grow long term.

A village idiot, top of the country bumpkin crop, speaks - his name is Steve: -

https://next.ft.com/content/900d015a-3ba2-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a

Works in the Nissan car manufacturing plant in Sunderland. Voted out. Then woke up in the morning and said "Oh balls, what have I done". And then, his suggestion as to how the Nissan plant should be saved: -

“Hopefully our government, when they eventually get themselves sorted out, will put money into Nissan. If the government say don’t leave, we will make an offer you can’t refuse — hopefully that’s what’s going to happen.”

There you have it. British Leyland, back to the future: It's the 1970's!

SoD

Some comic relief: Steve's mates chewing the cud: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF-CkMpQtlY

SoD

Jimmy, we in the US are being treated to London's sore losers...aka Millennials protesting the vote and demanding it be done over until they get what they want. I hope employers have snapped up these kids while they still know everything. The older they get, the dumber they become. I hear them screaming they are not British! They are European! Sick. My solution would be to grab a hundred or so at a time and take them to places I went when I was their age. Maybe reality could bitch slap some sense into them. Take them to say...Belarus, El Salvador, Guatemala and other places. Too bad the Iron Curtain fell. I remember being on the wrong side of that.

The racism stuff is rote behavior for the elites. They react involuntarily with an outburst as if they all were afflicted with Tourette Syndrome. "Racism" is first out of their mouths.

Whitewall, don't worry about the Millennials - only about a third of them bothered to get up off the sofa and take their eyes off their phones for long enough to vote.

It can't have been THAT important to them.

Andrew, they can protest but can't be bothered to vote I guess?

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