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Tuesday, 20 September 2016

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I was asked to go on an Alpha course by my friend a vicar who was an extremely good and entertaining person.I told him that I simply had no regard for religion and was a confirmed unbeliever in god and would be a disruptive person there."Come anyway and say what you like"
Nicky Gumbel was the video presenter and proceeded to explain that God, Jesus and the holy (ghost) now spirit was three aspects of the same entity like water, ice and steam. At the discussion afterwards I repeated this and asked if this was what they believed and God gave his only son as a sacrifice for our sins and was resurrected. I said where is the sacrifice?It is like me giving a pound getting it back three days later for eternity. I was not asked back.

Any god that humans conceive it can be safely said does not exist. Maybe one day that may no longer be true when our knowledge of the universe is greater than it is now. When that time comes if it does then it may tell us that a god or gods had no hand in creation. However what we discover what ever it is will be far more astonishing than anything that we currently can imagine. I doubt we have even invented a language yet that can describe it.

Taking on faith doctrines compiled from misinterpreted words and events, musings of minds that invent answers that current levels of knowledge do not contain and present them as truth and that are then further distorted by manipulation by vested interests does not seem a sound basis on which to found a litany of beliefs. Yet we do turning those beliefs into religions and political ideologies. The most ubiquitous of which are, Christianity, Islam and socialism and as time and empirical evidence proves baseless and dangerous. From that it appears that humans have a long way to travel before objectivity, reason and logic are more predominant than gullibility, credence of superstition and emotional subjectivity. Until that time we will have to muddle along and suffer the consequences as usual blissfully ignorant most us at least that there are better ways.

I have no idea if there is a supreme being or not, but what I do not believe in is organised religion. An artificial concept devised by those who seek wealth, position, and power over the weak, gullible, and easily led is not something I would support or follow. Before Christianity and Islam and scientology and all the others, there were thousands of religions with their own gods. What of them today? Were they fake religions with false gods? Are our current religions going to follow on?
Am I asking too many questions?
Some time ago, there was a bloke called Epicurus who wrote:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is not benevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence come evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
I have raised this matter several times to local holy Joes who try to get me to join their cult but have not yet received a satisfactory answer.

I have no idea either. It does seem that any god that man conjures up is most often a very useful one. Humans are predisposed to a religious impulse and this is probably good. We may be "made that way" somehow instinctively knowing we must have something above and just out of reach that is somehow better. For now, we are free to believe in the Christian God, the God of Israel or Islam's God. I know if Islam has its way, free to choose will be chosen for us. In the meantime, man creates his eye level god in all the empty places that promise us anything we want at the moment. We create a religion in search of a deity.

I don't believe in God, but my wife is training to be an Anglican priest, so I just do as I'm told. Things go better that way, I find.

Sojourning here at theological college, however, has led me to see that Christians are - in the main - a force for good.

"Sojourning here at theological college, however, has led me to see that Christians are - in the main - a force for good." That has been a common thread in modern Western Civilization. We have been abandoning that impulse for generations and are suffering social rot as a result. It makes the road easier for Islam and its allies.

Whitewall, I couldn't agree more. Whatever we happen to believe, our debt to Christianity is enormous. It is a great pity that so many want to tear things down and criticise our past, without acknowledging the good that it did. Our civilisation is happily sawing through the branch it sits on.

'W', well said!

My parents were non-believers but sent me to church to make up my own mind. Being a precocious brat led me to read the Bible between the Sunday school lesson bits. There I found ritual murders, all manner of perversion and tidbits like these:

Matthew 15:3-4 – Jesus demands putting disrespectful children to death

Luke 19:27 – Jesus says anyone who doesn’t believe in him should be dragged in front of him and killed

So much for the Bronze Age Prince of Peace.

When I informed the Pastor I'd been reading between the lessons he remarked there was some awful stuff, wasn't there? He went on to say not to worry, because if I ever decided I did believe in God all I had to do was repeat I accepted Him while being in contact with running water to fulfill the ritual. I could even do it in the shower.

It's not at all clear that religion has generally improved the character of humanity. Anyone with a moderate familiarity with world history would know that.

http://malcolmpollack.com/2016/03/04/live-and-learn/

Thanks for that link, JK. I had forgotten that particular thread on Malcolm's blog. I enjoyed re-reading the post and the commentary that followed it.

Y'all be cool.

Henry

David, the reason the Catholic Church exists is just the passing of time and people forget.

You'll be cool too TheBigHenry with, Bob showering with God?

I am not sure about Arkansas, JK, but I believe in most of our United States, consenting adults can shower together. Whether or not that applies to showering with God, however, is a judgment that is way above my pay scale to make.

Bob, TheBigHenry I'm pretty durn near cert hasn't a damn near sight comparisons to applying to Arkansas.

Pennsylvania maybe but that'd be beyond, way beyond, my pay scale too.

But by the logic TheBigHenry, could even The Lord God Hisself judge to consider it a fine idea to, even under the runniest of water, scrub Bob's back?

I only ask TheBigHenry as, I know you'n Big Al has "a thing" for one another.

Not meaning anything particularly you understand?

Remember Godel proved God's existence using logic, if you accept his axioms: -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof

Note his note 14 in that article: "14. Religions are, for the most part, bad — but religion is not."

Separating religions from religion is the critical start point, as you and Godel seem to concur on.

When the proof's penny drops, it's a rather rewarding experience; intertwined with his incompleteness theorem proving the Marxist professor in Stoppard's play "Rock 'n' Roll" wrong when he said "you could make me out of empty beer cans if you had enough", you get the essence, the very DNA of the Libertarian right wing world view.

(So just to be clear, that's not the country bumpkins, fascists, and everything in between right wing I'm referring to there).

SoD

I accept the axiom that God could scrub my back in the shower if She willed it and that no state could stop Her.

Gentlemen, could we all please get out of the shower, I'm feeling uncomfortable!

SoD, I am sleeping perfectly well without any assistance from Mr. Godel. I attempted to follow his argument but my head kept hitting the keyboard. Surely it is enough to say that the entire universe follows the rules of 'cause' and then 'effect' with one great exception (as far as we can tell), the moment that 'nothing' became 'something'. Once that 'something' came into being (believed to be the sudden appearance of a zillion-trillion hydrogen and helium particles then scientific 'causes' took over. So, to be strictly accurate, we should describe the universe as being a series of effects followed by causes!

It occurs to me that Godel is the conjunction of the words "God" and "el", the latter being a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity". Moreover, we know that Big Al and Big Kurt had conversations about time and other stuff. Furthermore, Big Al was in the habit of telling God not to gamble.

I don't normally indulge in conspiracy theory, but this stuff is making me nervous. I best get out of the shower and towel off, ASAP.

What's next, everyone in the sauna? Keep those towels tight now.

Keep the towels tight and don't pick up the soap :)

@TheGaffer

You've turned into a materialist / mechanist, haven't you?

We're all just cause and effect meat machines to you - beer cans would do the trick, if we had a enough of them.

You have plans for everyone these days, taking back control, the beer cans must dance to the tune of the mechanist, 1975 on steroids.

So it goes, as we slide into the new dark age.

SoD

I'd suggest Loz you exercise some caution. Bob's correct, God is a woman.

And blonde.

JK,
____________________________________________________
TRIGGER WARNING: The following is not for the faint of heart -- some may even deem it to be blasphemy!
____________________________________________________

Are you suggesting that She is an airhead or that She is easily "nailed" (in a manner of speaking)?

Not at all TheBigHenry.

What I'm merely pointing out is there's a tendency when the dice do not get rolled, to lose the route when in heavy traffic.

And these days She's certainly a lot on Her mind.

JK,

Aren't you anthropomorphizing Her? If, as has been vouchsafed by Popes and other infallible sources, She is omniscient, omnipotent, and omni-etc., heavy traffic should be a no-brainer.

Just sayin'.

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