Alfie Evans - the end

For reasons quite beyond my understanding I am unable to add comments to my posts, however, I can (I think/hope!) continue to post, as I am now doing on the fraught subject of Alfie Evans, the infant who has finally died.  Let me begin by suggesting that some of the commentary (yes, SoD, that means you!) is more than a tad excitable.  Some of it is bringing back memories of the 'late and unlamented' PeterG!

Let me remind everyone here that none of us has even the slightest idea of Alfie's condition or treatment prior to death.  As much as one can gather via the press, his brain was, in effect, rotting away.  What caused that condition or what you can do to treat it, let alone stop it, is the stuff of medical bio-chemistry and I would suggest that only a handful of doctors would have any understanding of it.  As we all have to do from time to time, but thankfully not in such a dangerous condition, we can only put our trust in the doctors - because there is no alternative!

We do that during our lives with both fingers firmly crossed because we know - do we not? - that doctors are human, just like us, with their fair share of weaknesses but the great question overhanging our doubts and suspicions is simple - what is the alternative?  Well, there is some sort of a safeguard, one which Alfie's parents took advantage of, and that is to apply to the judges for an over-view.  However, as is obvious, the chances of a judge, no matter how senior in his or her profession, actually over-turning a doctor's decision is virtually nil - and quite right too because they know no more than the infamous 'man in the street'.

The other question which has raised blood pressure all round is the refusal of the doctors to release Alfie back to his home and his parents.  Again, none of us knows exactly what sort of treatment was being administered to Alfie via some diabolically complicated machines requiring trained staff to operate them.  Would this technology and the ability to use it have been available at Alfie's home?  I doubt it.  Usually, in these circumstances, hospitals, particularly children's hospitals like Alder Hey, have facilities that will allow parents to stay close by overnight.

Finally, and this is aimed directly at 'SoD', I would remind him that not only did every court in the UK back the decision but also the European Court of Human Rights!  If we are to enjoy a civilised society then it is necessary to submit to the rule of law - even though we know that from time to time they will get it wrong - because the alternative is chaos.

 

 

Comments

[David Duff]

testing

[Andra]

testing to you too.

[david morris]

The secret barrister has something to say on this via his twitter feed

[David Duff]

Sorry, David, I don't 'do' twitter - you meet the strangest people! But what is the essence of his message?

[Loz]

"Let me remind everyone here that none of us has even the slightest idea of Alfie's condition or treatment prior to death."

Rubbish. It was all there if you could be bothered to read it. It's just your lick-spittle to authority, "doctor knows best", statist lackey mentality coming through.

" ... we can only put our trust in the doctors - because there is no alternative!"

Horseshit. Not even gonna reply to that.

"However, as is obvious, the chances of a judge, no matter how senior in his or her profession, actually over-turning a doctor's decision is virtually nil - and quite right too because they know no more than the infamous 'man in the street'."

Bullshit. Why can't judges allow the parents to take their child to attend another doctor's counsel and receive treatment? Why are only NHS doctors "in the know"? And how can judges know if NHS doctors are "in the know" and the European doctors "know nothing" if, as you've said, the judges know nothing about the condition?

"Again, none of us knows exactly what sort of treatment was being administered to Alfie via some diabolically complicated machines requiring trained staff to operate them. Would this technology and the ability to use it have been available at Alfie's home?"

Pure shit. The hospital turned his life support system off. The treatment was none existent.

"Finally, and this is aimed directly at 'SoD', I would remind him that not only did every court in the UK back the decision but also the European Court of Human Rights!"

Bollocks. This is why I said we should be back in the EU encouraging the ECHR and other EU bodies to ensure freedom of movement for health care seekers across the continent, and further afield, and to break up the murderous monopolies of the 28 states.

SoD

[David Duff]

SoD, please read this link to an article in The Mail on Sunday written by a brain surgeon whose own son suffered with a brain tumour in the first few months of his life:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5670087/Those-accuse-doctors-murdering-Alfie-Evans-guilty-ignorance-cruelty.html

Be warned - if your reply is as foulmouthed and excitable and discourteous as most of your posts on this subject, the censor's axe will drop!

[Loz]

Everyone knows that Alfie's condition is incurable.

Everyone knows that he didn't have long to live with the NHS treatment and in Rome and elsewhere.

You and Marsh seem to think that we - the protesters and I - think Alfie could be returned to health, when we know he can't.

You and Marsh use that falsehood to accuse us of ignorance, a straw man accusation, if you like.

By distracting in this way, the true point is missed ...

(1) Nobody knows if Alfie is in pain.
(2) There are two possible states: -
(2a) Alfie is dead: The greater system of which he is made has departed the carbon.
(2b) Alfie is still alive: However small a part, some of the greater system of which he is made is still clinging on to a bit of the carbon.

If Alfie is dead, then the NHS's job is done. What's the harm if the parents in their grief wish to cuddle a lump of carbon for as long as it takes, especially if they find a means to pay for it themselves?

If Alfie is not dead and can't be shown to be in pain, then the NHS might be obliged to keep him alive depending on the t's and c's of the NHS contract with us and the general law (I certainly think it should be obliged), but at least in the event that the NHS can wash their hands of keeping him alive they should allow the parents to transfer him to somewhere else that will keep him alive.

That's the point!

I'm with the US Congressman - JK, where do I get hold of an AR-15?

SoD

P.S. Written in present tense, even though we know Alfie has died.

[Loz]

Here you go, Gaffer one from your epoch ...

What's it all about, Alfie?
Is it just for the moment we live?
What's it all about when you sort it out, Alfie?
Are we meant to take more than we give
Or are we meant to be kind?
And if only fools are kind, Alfie
Then I guess it is wise to be cruel
And if life belongs only to the strong, Alfie
What will you lend on an old golden rule?
As sure as I believe there's a heaven above, Alfie
I know there's something much more,
Something even non-believers can believe in
I believe in love, Alfie
Without true love we just exist, Alfie
Until you find the love you've missed you're nothing, Alfie
When you walk let your heart lead the way
And you'll find love any day, Alfie, Alfie

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KoNtj27a6Rk

SoD