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Thursday, 17 January 2019

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"... they are bound by the will of the people which, you might suppose, takes precedence over everything."

Quite so. And when the result is finely balanced it is customary for the mandate not to run its term before asking the people again. In hung or slim majority parliaments the government often doesn't make it through the term before another election - could even happen with this government.

So given the fine balance of the vote two and half years ago, plus the voluminous quantity of new information, it's well within democratic precedent and form to have another referendum now.

Or, if we stick rigidly by your "Once you've asked for the will of the people you don't ask them again" pencil-mustachioed bloke form the 1930's mantra, then we should stay in as per the result of the first referendum in 1975 when the peeps voted 67 to 33% to Remain.

SoD

Didn't last long, did I?

SoD

67 to 33% to remain in the Common Market.

SoD:

Quite so. And when the result is finely balanced it is customary for the mandate not to run its term before asking the people again. In hung or slim majority parliaments the government often doesn't make it through the term before another election - could even happen with this government.

There is no such custom. The mandate, such as it is in British politics, lasts just as long as those prepared to push through legislation have the power to do so. The fact that majorities no longer operate is purely procedural (i.e. the government can't get its business through the house) and has nothing to do with whether such business is mandated.

56% and rising ...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-support-for-staying-in-eu-hits-highest-level-since-referendum-as-56-per-cent-say-a4041406.html

You should've slapped May's hand and taken the Deal.

"For you Tommy, ze vor iz over."

And of course, the intelligence levels of Brexiteers being what it is ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YMVPXmaKds

SoD

It's embarrassing to have to agree with the weasel, but he has a talent for sniffing political winds:

"Brexit campaigner Nigel Farage said on Wednesday he thought Britain was heading for a delay to its scheduled March 29 exit from the European Union and probably would hold a fresh referendum on the country’s membership of the EU."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-farage/uk-headed-for-brexit-delay-and-second-referendum-farage-idUSKCN1PA0KF

Meanwhile, what shall become of Mrs. May?

Teflon Theresa will steer it all through to the end.

Then, at the end, when Blighty decides to Remain, and the low-lifers in the Tory party who demanded she stand down as party leader after Brexit was delivered and before the next election in exchange for their support in getting her deal through come calling, she'll say: "Blow it our your arse, suckers. You didn't back my deal, AND, we didn't do Brexit. So I'm under no obligation to retire. I'll be leading the Tories into the next election."

You wanna study that Battle of Tourcoing 1794 map, Bob ...

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/32260/32260-h/images/i004tmb.jpg

She's played a blinder. Manoeuvre of the central position. Divide and conquer. Destroy one half of the enemy, then take the other's surrender and consume it into your ranks (in this case, the half of the enemy she original hailed from).

She's got cunning, courage and stamina in spades.

With Teflon Theresa as PM, Michael "The Bastard" Gove as her second, and under the EU's wing, we'll be OK.

Even the DT's in-house doomsayer AEP says "Buy British assets" ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/01/10/no-deal-brexit-table-sterling-assets-screaming-buy/

I won't say it, yet, but ...

SoD

Unlike our resident fantasist I have no idea how things will turn out. However, I do smell something in the air beginning with "R". Revenge.

'Revenge' of the Ruling Class. Yellow Vests can break out in the most unexpected places.

Evidently Project Gutenberg doesn't allow hot linking, but I get the idea. Whether Theresa can be Teflon enough remains to be seen. What backing she has only exists because Tories are united against Labour. That seems like thin ice that's not likely to get thicker once Brexit falls through.

“1975 when the peeps voted 67 to 33% to Remain.” Yes, but that was to remain in the “Common Market” not the EU. Bit like we voted to join a basketball team and now we want to leave a rugby team. Time and again what we were a member of was morphed into something different without reference to us (and I am not saying they were required to, albeit they did say they would on at least 2 occasions). The last referendum demonstrated that the majority were not happy with where we had got to and I, for 1, am entirely unhappy with where it is going.

Who was the chief champion, chomping at the Twitter bit, for a second referendum after the negotiations were completed?

None other than the Gaffer's darling: Jacob Rees-Mogg!!!

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/17/past-top-brexiteers-comes-back-haunt-massive-billboards-8354027/

Hehehe!

It's good to belly laugh at these poltroons now, but also it'll be good to see 'em cleared off the decks of public life when this is all over and we get back to something ressembling "normal" in the not too distant future.

SoD

David,

This is from my last post on Facebook. As a former second-hand car dealer, you are more than qualified to comment.

"Taking 'No deal' off the table is tantamount to someone buying a car telling the second hand dealer that he is definitely buying it, what ever it takes, and no, he won't walk away. Now what kind of deal would you get if you were stupid enough stupid enough to enter negotiations on those terms? Both May and Hammond are so incompetent that they couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel. Stop press... Add Corbyn to the list of incompetents. He has just called for 'No deal' to be taken off the table as well!"

P.S. Didn't P.T. Barnum once say that one was born every minute?

This proves it in triplicate.

Whitewall can you please enlighten me on this shut down of the USA public services. In Britain strikes can shut down service but in the USA the politicians who do not lose any wages can deprive workers of a salary. I am not being political in this request but just want educated.

Perhaps there is someone with the influence and guts to follow the will of the people and repeat the words of Ollie Cromwell -

"It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place,
which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice".

In the parliament of the country that gave us the concept of Parliamentary Democracy what is now happening is a bit like the attitude of Charles 1 and that didn't end nicely

https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-f-word-comes-in-for-heavy-play-but.html

AussieD you might have to translate ...

http://dailytimewaster.blogspot.com/2019/01/when-i-heard-this-news-i-confess-i.html

I don't think AussieD, your translation services will be requested for that.

G'day JK

Which part of the song did you need translated :-)

Pretty basic Strine really.

The letter is a hoot. The way to treat people like Pelosi et al.

Glesga...Jimmy?
Federal workers that are unionized ( bad idea from the outset), are not allowed to strike as the PATCO union found out under Reagan. In this case about 75 percent of the government has already been funded by Congress so it is the remaining 25 that are being laid off so to speak until matters are resolved. Workers will get their back pay eventually. The pols do continue to get paid of course. Some Federal workers and agencies do get called back-pay or no pay.

Where I live, in the heart of the furniture and textile industries, a lot of people have the attitude of 'the shoe is on the other foot now'. Federal workers were always paid even while administering bad government policy that wrecked entire industries, towns and cities and families. In hard times we are all supposed to draw on our 'emergency savings' until things improve.

Here you go: The EU solving problems and taking out the bad guys ...

https://www.theweek.co.uk/99042/eu-votes-to-freeze-funds-for-corrupt-member-states

Whoever said two bullies in the playground is worse than one maybe needs to rethink their worldview.

Only "Dad's Army and the Bolsheviks" supporters would like to be exclusively controlled by one bully.

The third estate, those truly thinking of themselves as individuals, eschew such collectivist one bully nonsense.

Viva my corridor conversation hero, B. from Portugal, who set me on the straight and narrow from a world of collectivist one bully despair.

SoD

It's inspiring that Brits, in the face of doom, can carry on with the mundane:

"With the country in crisis and Ms May’s leadership under increasing pressure, parliament is showing it can still get on with some elements of business by debating a proposed law about letterboxes.

Yes, letterboxes — and specifically, the height of them in people’s doors."

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/wtf/before-theresa-may-faces-a-noconfidence-motion-british-politicians-will-debate-letterboxes/news-story/e1cd3a82d4e14accb01d44c44005b961

Well done.

http://www.kait8.com/2019/01/18/trump-pelosi-feud-heats-up-again-negotiations-end-shutdown-remain-stalled/

That letter AussieD, aside from being a hoot (and to be honest, when I first spied it, I had doubts whether it was a "real thing") apparently set off another car on the Washington DC Hilarity Train!

Two truths from the Graun ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/18/europe-brexit-britain-state-politics-fit-for-purpose

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/18/brexit-britain-constitution-disintegration-eu-uk-devolution-good-friday-agreement

(1) Brexit wasn't about Blighty's relationship with the EU, it was about Blighty's relationship with itself.

(2) If Blighty doesn't get a written constitution soon it's game over for Blighty.

Two and a half years after you heard them first on D&N.

The old English empire, shrivelled to itself and its last three vassals, 1945-1975. Held in position, the rot stopped, irony of ironies, by the EU! The very institution blamed for stealing Blighty's sovereignty was the one that kept it safe!

The anger, rage, vitriol, all pitched at Brussels were merely displaced internal death throes.

Let me make one last prediction, albeit with a conditional: -

If no deal manages to win the day, civil war will tear Blighty apart, and England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, or what remains of them, will separate with such hatred that no-one living today will ever see reconciliation in their lifetime.

SoD

Well, there is a country that has a written constitution. It's going really well! Not. In fact, one side is trying to ditch the whole thing.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/will-elites-ever-respect-voters-decisions-on-brexit-and-trump

True: The problem with “elites” on both sides of the Atlantic is that they’re not especially elite. As Peggy Noonan says, "we are despised by our inferiors."

Was Captain Mainwaring a Trot?

The distaste with which the Dad's Army faction regards Representative Democracy ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy

... so mirrors the Bolshevik faction and its ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolsheviks

... full embrace of democratic centralism ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism

... you'd have to wonder if the two hadn't slipped to the pointy corner at the bottom of Nolan's chart ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart

... and squeezed together so closely they were coital?

SoD

SoD

“If no deal manages to win the day, civil war will tear Blighty apart, and England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, or what remains of them, will separate with such hatred that no-one living today will ever see reconciliation in their lifetime.” And if Remain wins how do you believe the majority who voted leave will feel?

WF

A no-deal Brexit is less likely by the day:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/polls-stay-eu-yougov-brexit-peoples-vote

The reality is Britain will not be able to establish meaningful trade relations under WTO rules. The only real spheres of influence in trade are the EU, America and China. If GB were to crash out of the current arrangement there would probably be overwhelming incentive to re-join the EU in short order and under less favorable circumstances. Anyone who thinks that, unlike Obama, Trump would move Britain to the head of the line hasn't been paying attention.

"Elites" is a cheap incrimination with no fixed meaning. In the West it's currently most often used to insult and degrade governments, which is language every authoritarian regime in history has employed to establish itself as the elite class. How is a New York real estate developer with global connections, who was given $200 million by his father and had his way greased through a top business school, not elite? The word is a political tool used to take advantage of dislocations caused by changes in technology and the world order after the post-war boom. It protects those profiting from any responsibility to defend the populations and countries capable of making them pay taxes.

Bob, the reality is is that free nations can and should be able to make trade agreements and big brother extra unnecessary Parliaments like the EU are not required to do so.

Wiggers,

If Remain wins the day I don't doubt that a few more Jo Cox's might come Blighty's way from the nutjob end of the Leavers and Dad's Army.

And as said, if No Deal wins the day the Paddies will kick off and lead the charge and the rest will follow.

With a pipe bomb here, a pipe bomb there, here a pipe bomb, there a pipe bomb, everywhere a pipe bomb ... old MacDonald has farm - with a shedload of fertilizer and hairspray whichever Country-Bumpkins wanna mix it and do the do it doesn't much matter, as you say, result's the same.

And May's deal is merely a stay of execution. It's only the divorce deal, FFS! Wait til the Canada++, Norway--, Irish border quandary gets going again. At backstop moment it'll still be "No Deal" or "Remain". No-one seems to get that a perpetual evocation of the backstop is actually hugely in Blighty's favour and might sustain her, for the reasons I've described endlessless here.

Dissolve the UK and let each one have its own referendum, I say. And England should split along the lines of the old heptarchy plus London and Cornwall. For a grand total of 12 ...

Wessex
Essex
Sussex
Kent
East Anglia
Mercia
Northumbria
Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales
London
Cornwall

Her Maj will be out of a job, but hey-ho, she had it coming. When this all kicked off and she posed the question: "Give me 3 good reasons why Blighty shouldn't do Brexit" I retorted straight away: "The prosperity of Blighty, peace in Blighty, and the unity of Blighty", it was obvious she was not bright enough to grasp the meaning of Brexit.

Or.

Take those twelve swords and forge a new iron throne of equals. A true federal Blighty, with states' rights, the same number of reps per state in the bicameral legislative body number one, proportional representation for bicameral legislative number two, an elected president, the judiciary independent as is, and a Constitution to crown it off.

Her Maj and Blighty's old Wright brothers' plane can find a dignified and respected place where they should've been a long while ago - in a museum.

Which is it to be?

SoD


Glesga,

For better or worse we don't live in a world without spheres of influence.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/LPjzfGChGlE

Immigration, poverty and gumballs. A fine explanation

SoD,

If we do not leave in some way shape or form the effect on democracy in the U.K. will be devastating, I think this fact may just be dawning on parliaments remainers, as evidenced by the rowing back of rhetoric this w/e. The ERG appear to have recognised that they could be opening the door to Corbyn. Looking like a lose lose situation. That said, Richard’s apology of the car dealer and taking “No Deal “ off the table is close to the truth.

WF

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