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Monday, 11 March 2019

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..."if he is wrong, then we will be forced to wait for John Wayne to strap on his six-shooter and step out into the dusty street!" There are millions of 'John Waynes' here who are calculating that that very thing is in the future.

To repeat, you're going to be hearing and reading that stuff from Republicans and the American right all year in various forms. It's not clear they have the credibility for it to work on more than the usual 35 - 40%.

What will save us is the sheer stupidity of Bob and his friends - on both sides of the Atlantic.

backofanenvelope, please hold your breath waiting.

Yo Bob?

Sorry I was pressed for time Sunday (heap big winds Saturday night blew some of my fruit trees down) and so "couldn't" reply to your comment of 19:15 wherein you provided an ADL released piece.

Here is what I would've:

https://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-FBI-AnarchistExtremists.pdf

Fortunately David, that Intel Community release isn't so far off-topic I'd argue, that it doesn't fit so uncomfortably alongside Mr. David Catron's observations.

*Interesting Sidenote - That's one of the very few threat assessments the IC was bullied into "yanking."

JK,

Sorry about the trees. I noticed you'ns had some bad weather over the weekend. A while back I lived on a wooded lot. Between the emerald ash borers and high winds the trees were thinning out fast. I'm too old to play Paul Bunyan at this point.

Skimmed the pdf and will read in more detail later. I'm a little puzzled the FBI seems to consider anarchists strictly left wing, and will look into that too. The dictionary definition for "anarchy" is "a political theory favoring the abolition of governments". As far as I know there are groups with that aim on both the left and right. Maybe you can explain.

It seems some of our European friends might consider Nazis to have been left wing, probably because they called themselves National Socialists. In the psych literature they're described as a classic right wing authoritarian movement.

Bob,

I don't act Paul Bunyan neither but I do play a mean Supervisor role in the woodlot.

Probably won't surprise you Bob to read I've got some educashunatin' in the field of Psychology - though I ain't never got up to the level of having to regularly check into the DSM for figuring out the 'hows/whys psychologically did they do that stuff' - things though do tend to change over time I've noticed.

Take the word Dreibund for instance. And, if you got access to a pretty well stocked research liberry, take peeks at both the 1950 and the 1970 editions ... Matter of fact Bob take a look at alotta things seeming to change faster and faster since about that 1970 timeframe (especially the pivotal year 1979) Maybe get yourself Bob an idee as to why our European -and English buddies - tend to that fashion; At least the ones our age cohort are likeliest to be conversing with.

J. Edgar you might bear in mind Bob was of "great influence" on the institution you and I know as our country's Secret Police otherwise known as the FBI. Just some little bit of esoterica for you Bob, don't worry you'll not get posed the question in Trivial Pursuit but, the word Dreibund occurs in at least three instances (more than that when single documents are to be the sourced) Anyway, J. Edgar was, apparently, using the word in the sense of, "to drive" or, "to push."

Interestingly too perhaps Bob, J. Edgar used the word Dreibund in his denunciations and equatings of Anarchism, Communism, and Nazism.

Perhaps the Schools of Psychology thought it best not to buck J. Edgar's school of thought until after he was dead?

Oops. Editions of the OED is what I'm meaning Bob.

Might look up period editions of Psychology texts too Bob - sometimes those're kinda entertaining. Sometimes - too much fascination with lobotomy and electro-shock for my taste though.

JK,

So you think JEH was a Nazi? Me too! He could have also used a little shrinking by someone with a DSM in hand if this is true: A long time ago I read an account by someone who described being called to his office and, upon arrival, finding him wearing nothing but a fedora and see-through rain coat. Before this person could gather his wits, a male aide walked into the room, put on rubber gloves, and began to fondle Mr. Hoover. I don't remember what happened next. Maybe I don't care to. If the FBI are trying to be secret they're not very good at it. Nothing is what it used to be though, even in German.

No Bob, well ... not exactly. Should you get some leisure time this may help:

http://centaur.reading.ac.uk/70513/1/Nazi%20voc%20Prag%20Soc%20spec%20issue_rev.pdf

I strongly suspect Bob we've different "views" where the Bureau's concerned, here's John Schindler's with whom, my view is a shared one - pre-Trump at any rate:

https://observer.com/2016/10/politicization-of-the-fbi-threatens-american-democracy/

Time will tell of course ... Not in our lifetimes though Bob.

JK,

I hope you're just trying to bait me with the Observer nonsense, but I'll read the Nazi language article.

Bob,

Nope. Not on the stuff Mr. Schindler writes, you can check out his stuff on his site 20committee dot com (which articles link to whatever site the articles "publish" on - lately mainly Spectator US) Anyway John was USN, NSA, (and when I knew him) faculty Naval War College.

He is a card-carrying registered Democrat - Search the 20committee site for "On My Politics."

JK,

The objective evidence is that Comey broke policy twice by announcing investigations into HRC. At the same time he never went public with the investigation opened for Trump. If the Clintons are the all-powerful devils some believe, they could do better.

By the way, thank everyone you meet down there for bringing Arkansas politics to the rest of the country. And we'd like y'all to know we're hoping the last nail was pounded in during 2016.

JK,

I read the links. There's an explanation for my question:

"Although both DHS and FBI typically avoid using terms such as “leftist” or “right-wing” in referring to US domestic extremist groups, we use the term “leftist” in deference to the description of Revolutionary Struggle “as a radical leftist group with a Marxist ldeology” in the US State Department’s designation of the group as a foreign terrorist organization (FTO) in 2009."

So the incorrect usage is to stay consistent with another report. Hmmm.

The one on Nazi language is an interesting insight to the work done to eventually comb through all the stuff on the thousands of IS servers. It doesn't explain JEH, but at least he probably would have raised a flag.

True: When I was in aerospace an "unnamed agency" offered me a job as an analyst after someone told someone I was interested in both current events and history. I didn't take the interview.

To the 12:39 Bob,

There's a huge difference between HRC's stuff and what you term "the investigation." Actually HRC's stuff were properly "investigations" while the the latter was/is a "counterintelligence operation." Investigations (pertinent when its FBI) must have a predicate crime before being opened - "the crime" in its allegations phase being described in US code statutes. Plus, 'the alleged[s]' must be subject to the Constitution. (We've witnessed that thorny issue being in play most recently where illegals from Honduras have been assumed by US media companies to be guaranteed its protections simply by having a foot on CONUS proper - Oddly there was hardly a media-fuss made even more recently when, the ISIS bride daughter of the Yemeni diplomat [born on CONUS proper] was/is seeking "right of return" to CONUS.)

Counterintelligence ops on the other hand more often than not don't involve any "crime" at all - Indeed all that matters to the inquiring agency [usually FBI/CIA] is the purposely nebulous concept of "is whatever's happening maybe maybe of some import to national security?" ... And there my friend is where Section 702 if the FISA/FISC US STATUTES come into play specifically; No US citizen's identity shall be publicly identified unless and until proof of a violation of US statute shall satisfy the requirements under Proof Of Evidence.

You're welcome and Probably not.

JK,

I stand corrected. However, I'm still doubtful that Comey's actions don't indicate the FBI isn't in the tank for the Clintons. And for gods' sakes, man, don't even think "probably not".

Well Bob,

The Chiefs of the Bureau will, always and ever prefer GW's (more Cheney's actually) "expansionist" view rather than the original 1970s era promulgating [pre-internet/cellphone] FISA/FISC authorizations legislations ... especially the limiting of powers. The run of the mill Indians (people more like us) of the Bureau, not so privileged generally speaking, tend to believe in "quaintinies" such as the Fourth Amendment if only because when they pledged fealty to the Constitution they didn't figure on federal agencies being weaponized against We The People. But that's exactly what happened with the GW years' Patriot Act. And, in my personal opinion, Congress abdicating its Constitutional obligations.

I've been looking for pre-Trump articles on (specifically) Antifa Bob but there seem to be roadblocks I've not been personally hindered by in years passed - I did however voluntarily pass on renewing my TS clearance some years ago not thinking I'd be running into the likes of such as yourself - my bad.

"Antifa resurfaced in the late 1980s in Europe, particularly in East Germany, as loose networks of radical activists came together in reaction to neo-Nazi and right-wing skinhead movements. The decade also marked the Antifa’s entrance onto the American stage in the form of the Anti-Racist Action, a network which originated in 1987 with the Baldies, a multi-racial crew in Minneapolis, leading to the creation of other groups across the country to fight neo-Nazis. Where the first iteration of Antifa groups based their actions on rhetoric and political activism, the later groups organised to fight on the streets."

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/29/what-is-antifa

"The Anarchist admits he has never laid a finger on an opponent. But he insists that any form of violence is legitimate against racists, bigots, nationalists or Nazis. "If someone beats up a racist it doesn't worry me. These people are heinous, so I don't really have any sympathy for them."

"He grew up in a family of Liberal voters, in the wealthy suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne. At university, while studying science and arts, he started reading Karl Marx and was swayed by the notion of a working-class revolution."

https://www.smh.com.au/national/beneath-the-black-mask-inside-australias-antifascist-antifa-groups-20160517-gox69s.html

https://itsgoingdown.org/taking-trash-fact-checking-politicos-antifa-attacks/

https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-issue-antifa-data-mining/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/politics/richard-spencer-punched-attack.html

It's pretty easy for me Bob, sitting where I'm sitting in rural Arkansas to figure "probably not" if only because "hammering the last nail" will require some contingent of people, 18s thereabouts to maybe 30s to do "the revolutionaries work" are mostly, obese, playing video games, unused to not having drive-ups at McDonalds and anesthetized dentistry, wound stanching and the like nor, do I see much evidence of their being obedient to the order-of-battle as laid down.

JK,

Got sidetracked by the cupcakes before checking here. All I meant is that we don't need any more pols like the Clintons. Do they have something to do with fringe groups? I remember the Michigan Militia and some others that thought Bill was going to turn us into communist Russia, but they were likewise a bunch of fat old guys who enjoyed wearing cammies on weekends.

Evidently you've spent a lot of time studying the fringe. I agree they won't be going away soon. However, I don't find ideology as useful an explanation for how groups or societies behave as sociology and political psychology and neuroscience. That wouldn't help me in the fields you've been in, but my interests are driven by curiosity, not law enforcement.

Thanks for the links. I agree Antifa isn't going to amount to much. Either are the fringe groups on the right. In the media you can find lots of scare stories but as far as I know, they're mostly that.

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