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Friday, 05 April 2019

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This list was, I guess, compiled before the current Brexit mess?

Yes I suppose some people kill their own country.

Churchill did not divert anything from India in 1943. He did ask Roosevelt for help.
Guess that's a bit like the story of his sending the army to S Wales- he actually sent policemen.
People who achieve things always acquire enemies. Enemies give credit for nothing.

I think you misread me, Pat, my point was that Churchill REFUSED to divert ships TO India during the famine.

My nomination for fairly high up the top 10 is Pol Pot (aka citizen 1).

OK, I know I will never get on any "Ten Sexist Men" list or "Ten Best Bloggers," but now, to get excluded from this list, too . . . Oh the shame.

Well Lewis if it's any consolation, were David to include members of his readership on such a named list he'd have to go double the ten ... then again the ilk that'd nominate such for inclusion don't matter nohow.

To suggest the Allied bombing campaign was "mostly useless" is simplistic and assigns a conclusion which is highly debatable. Furthermore, it ignores the massive political pressure placed on the Allies by Stalin. Keeping the Russians fighting and dying before the German onslaught was absolutely, totally critical for the Allied war effort.
German insiders credit the Allied bombing offensive with crippling the German war industry. Speer repeatedly said (both during and after the war) it caused crucial production problems. Admiral Karl Dönitz, head of the U-boat fleet (U-waffe), noted in his memoirs failure to get the revolutionary Type XXI U-boats (which could have completely altered the balance of power in the Battle of the Atlantic) into service was entirely the result of the bombing. The United States Strategic Bombing Survey (Europe), says, despite bombing becoming a major effort, between December 1942 and June 1943, "The attack on the construction yards and slipways was not heavy enough to be more than troublesome" and the delays in delivery of Type XXIs and XXIIIs up until November 1944 "cannot be attributed to the air attack",[23] but adds, "The attacks during the late winter and early spring of 1945 did close, or all but close, five of the major yards, including the great Blohm and Voss plant at Hamburg".

Of the British bombing: according to economic historian Adam Tooze, in his book The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy, a turning point in the bomber offensive was reached in March 1943, during the Battle of the Ruhr. Over five months 34,000 tons of bombs were dropped. Following the raids, steel production fell by 200,000 tons, making a shortfall of 400,000 tons. Speer acknowledged that the RAF were hitting the right targets, and raids severely disrupted his plans to increase production to meet increasing attritional needs. Between July 1943 and March 1944 there were no further increases in the output of aircraft.[163]

The bombing of Hamburg in 1943 also produced impressive results. Attacks on Tiger I heavy tank production, and the manufacture of 88mm guns, the most potent dual-purpose artillery piece in the Wehrmacht was "set back for months". On top of this, some 62 percent of the population was dehoused causing more difficulties

Stewart,

I'm fair to middling higher level confident you're 'new around here' if you're thinking anybody around here lightly 'suggests' any such thing.

Fr'instance:

https://duffandnonsense.typepad.com/duff_nonsense/2015/02/bomber-harris-bone-head-or-block-buster.html

https://duffandnonsense.typepad.com/duff_nonsense/2010/03/deadly-numbers.html

***

Oh an' David it would appear the Mosquito may "fly again" albeit another iteration - looks pretty neat though if you ask me:

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2019/04/if-we-wont-re-open-bronco-line.html

Duffers the Sanhedrin were assemblies of rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal in every city in Biblical Israel.

Taunton's choice of them is a particularly Christian influenced one and valid only so far as if a person accepts that Jesus was the Son of G-D.

They have had a particularly bad Press for two thousand years.

David

If the is a list of evil political/governmental leaders that is one thing, but iI suspect the really evil are non-political thugs and what not.

The Sanhedrin is very doubtful, besides a situation that was challenging there whole philosophy of life and faith, there were trying to prevent anything that would create a hostile reaction from the Roman occupiers. After all Jesus himself said “they no not what they do.”

I think Lenin deserves a higher place, if did not have the opportunity to roll a large personal score, his consistent life long ruthless pursuit of Marxism is a stand out;.

Pol Pot should be on the list.

The dishonorable mentions are to many to list.

Agree about the Sanhedrin and Marx.
Where's Ghengis Khan? Or Tamurlane?

Stewart, thanks for your contribution and, if you are interested, I would urge you to click on the two links provided by my 'Chief Archivist', JK! I have just re-read them and though I say it myself, with excellent contributions from readers, they were both extremely informative.

Can’t see the warlord who personally killed over 800hostages and whose works inspired the murder of a couple of hundred million on your list(ongoing) nor Genghis Khan who liked to leave pyramids of skulls of the cities he’d sacked.

Oops my eyesight missed no6! He should be much higher.

There was a time when such people never existed.

Then out of the sun came spinning a radioactive particle that pierced Mr Ugh's testicle just as the pair of them were bouncing delightfully off his missus' arse one beautiful morning in Ughland.

Everything was just fine and dandy in Ughland. People co-operated through voluntary association, socially and economically. Politics didn't exist because power was not a material feature of the human unit.

The spunker that happened to have a chromosome dislodged by the radio-active particle just happened to be the one in a 6 million that got to Mrs Ugh's eggy-weggy.

The Gods wept.

When Ugh junior was born his first words were, "I'm not doing this for me, I only want to serve you".

No-one had heard that before.

The rest is history.

SoD

And then, 10,000 years down the line, descendant of Ugh junior finally tells the truth ...

https://youtu.be/FaqxAEx46Zk

SoD

Those above who point out conspicuous omissions are right. The list is just a political screed. For only one example, Grand Inquisitor Torquemada is a historic standout for cruelty and violence. As far as Bible stories go, Herod the Great, perpetrator of the Massacre of the Innocents, was arguably worse than the Sanhedrin (group of Jewish judges) that tried Jesus, not least because He supposedly knew what He was getting Himself into. Always be suspicious of writers with three names.

The next generation of pol-gened dross readies itself to inflict another epoch of misery on the Brit hoi-polloi ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/06/ex-military-mps-war-gaming-will-next-prime-minister/

The failed Ruperts of Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, whose battle cry was "Crack on!" in spite of truth, logic and reason, who in fact seem unable to utter little else, and having not won a war since 1982 now fancy a swan-song crack at politics.

The descendants of Ugh junior. Why, oh why, do they smash the beetles?

https://youtu.be/997lGD65WNc

SoD

David,

In '43, the Battle of the Atlantic had not yet been won. The U-boat came perilously close to knocking us out of the war and at the time of the famine, we needed every single merchant ship we had. Closer to Bengal, the 14th Army were also fighting for their lives. The logistical problems they had were huge, and even with Slim's genius (I rate him as the best British logistical general since Marlborough) there were no merchant ships to spare. Yes, the Bengal famine was a tragedy, but based on their conduct in places such as Nanking, matters would have been infinitely worse had the Japanese prevailed.

Richard, as I understand it, there were merchant ships bringing supplies, mostly of food, from Australia and New Zealand and according to some commentators, some of them could have been diverted.

David, we needed every last ship.

The turning point in Burma wasn't reached until 1944. The battles of the Admin Box, Imphal and Kohima had yet to be fought and as you know all too well, they were all very close run and could have gone either way. Without adequate supply, they would have been lost for sure.

A handful of diverted ships wouldn't have even put a dent in what was needed to relieve the Bengali famine. A major effort would have been called for and given the military situation we just didn't have the ships, particularly as the Japs were hard at work sinking what we had. Replacement vessels and crews couldn't just be magicked out of thin air.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/153530907.pdf

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