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Saturday, 15 February 2020

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David,

How right you are when you describe the qualities that have held the vast United States together so far. Our carelessness with these essential ligatures is, I fear, a mortal error.

What, after all, constitutes a nation?

Yes, size is an important factor when considering representative democracies. The chances of me getting my favourite policy choices implemented by a parish council are fairly high. Less so on a county or national level. Infinitesimally small with an entity the size of Europe, with hundreds of millions of voters. Democracy was born in small Greek city states. The more it departs from this, the more people need expensive and Byzantine arrangements to stop it going badly wrong. The USA had a few good arrangements, and so did we in the UK. We need to restore what had not been irreparably wrecked.

David

Yes, size matters?

Also important are centralization and feedback.

The US originally was a loose confederation which provided a minimum of necessary central functions, but for the most part let states and local regions do their own things. Also, there a large sense that some things are not governmental. The congress was designed to allow for negative feedback to be discussed. (At one time on said THESE United States not THE United States.)

This is consensus is breaking down, the left hates it, and right has been co-opted and dumbed down though some are trying to reverse the trend.

The EU could work if it was much decentralized, not just to the National level but especially to the regions and it had a parliament that was not a rubber stamp. The leadership of the EU, however, is convinced that maximizing centralization is the way to go. Things like the parliament are a way to communicate decisions down, not get input and feedback.

That structure will probably hold longer than one would think, and perhaps it can be reversed, but it is bound to crash.


All quite perfectly wrong.

The EU would likely work better if it stopped listening to its enemies and detractors, stopped letting the heads of state of the 28 run it, and chamged from confederacy to federacy, but IT DOESN'T DO IT, as the CNN article highlights ...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/15/europe/europes-populist-nightmare-is-far-from-over-intl/index.html

Claire Fox, author of the speccie article, knows a thing or two about destabilising the state she plays a political part of with treachery and treason having been an IRA supporter, specifically as they murdered British children. No surprise she reverts to type then with her attacks on the EU - or rather, never changes from type - and adopts a strategy of "undermine from within". But the EU welcomes all comers, enemies and detractors alike.

And the EU allows the heads of state of the 28 to remain as the executive and steadfastly DOESN'T move towards a directly elected executive and president. It continues to leave the executive power with the states' elected leaders and thereby stands by its Confederate principles and retains the sovereignty with the states.

And I endorse it therefore, as a valuable external oversight that improves the citizens' lot with better governance while retaining states' sovereignty.

And the irony is if the EU went towards an elected president and executive, and thereby away from confederalism and to federalism, your fawning adulation of democratic centralism should mean you'd have to throw your support behind it!

And if the EU ever did that, I'd be dead set against it!

SoD

Whyaxye,

Your vote is as worthless with 65m other voters as it is with 0.5bn voters. In either case even if you'd voted in the opposite direction in every election since the day you were born it would've made NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever to your life or anyone else's.

Democracy's claim that it makes a difference how you vote and that that benefits you is a con. That fake beneficial claim is an over extension of the benefit of democracy by pols designed to turn democracy into totalitarianism, namely: Democratic Centralism. The exact system used by the Bolsheviks!

The only benefit of democracy is the exchange of power without violence. You could just as easily do that by drawing lots!

I mean, put it this way, how small does a group have to be before your vote counts? I know many families where the Father gets regularly over-ruled by the Missus and kiddy-winkies, so what chance has your vote in a tribe, a city state, a nation, or a federacy? The square root of bugger all, is the the right answer.

SoD

The European Union, of course, is equally divided into separate communities with totally differing languages and history, indeed, some of the histories are bloody and not easily forgotten, let alone forgiven!

You talking about Blighty there, right? The slaughter and oppression of the empire days? Seemingly unforgiveable I grant you, yet the Indian and Pakistani colleagues I work with seem to have gotten over it.

As for differing cultures in Europe, wtf are you talking about? 2500 years of shared culture, from Greco-Roman, through Judeo-Christian, Renaissance, Enlightenment, to modernist times. Uninterrupted shared culture for 2500 years.

As a South-East Englander I've got more in common with the central and eastern European immigrants by way of culture, work ethic and worldview than the Norf, Sweaty, and Country-Bumpkin whingers, victim status claimers, dependants, and fake job spongers.

SoD

As for you, Malc, the very confederacy you crave is the precise model of the EU.

If the US booted out federalism and brought back Old Dixie she'd have a twin and biggest NBF in the EU!

SoD

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