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Sunday, 17 May 2020

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A prime requirement for trading with anyone is trust. Will they deliver what they promised?.Will they cheat or steal?
The Saudis have earned that trust, obnoxious as they are.
The Chinese were given it and chose to abuse it. Stealing copyrights for ages, delivering faulty goods, hiding then lying about the lurgy.
And whatever theoretical profits are to be made from the trade, we know they will break their promises any time it suits them.
So by all means buy novelties, fashion garments and such.
But don't manufacture there or you'll get ripped off. And these days there's cheaper labour elsewhere.
Don't rely on them for anything you'd really miss, like medicines or face masks.
And don't have them supply anything that would allow them to hold us to ransom, like a power station we can't do without, or a communication network which we will depend on to be both secure and reliable.
It's not just their trustworthiness, its also their competence. Much what is made in China is shoddy.
Oh and I note the expectation that China will help the fight against global warming. China is building coal fired power stations like billy-oh. I don't think they believe the theory at all, though they are quite happy letting us impoverish ourselves. They can supply all the metals we want at a good profit for them because they use cheap and reliable energy from coal. If we really are concerned about CO² emissions that alone would justify boycotting China.

The turning point for China is best seen in Hong Kong.
For a century successive Chinese governments, some of them seriously obnoxious, observed the treaties regarding that place.
The current Chinese administration is ignoring it's obligations.
The current Chinese government cannot be trusted.

Been puzzling this one for a while: Someone explain to me why India isn't competing effectively with China for our desire for low cost labour intensive crapulata that we can't make any more for the pittance it pays?

Look at the GDP growth charts ...

http://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/china-vs-india-economy.php

I know China lies about GDP yada-yada blah-blah, but not enough to explain away the huge difference in the economies per capita and their comparative growth over the last few decades.

If only India would lift its game and give China a run for their money. Labour costs in India are a fraction of China's yet all the iThingy and landfill fodder factories go to China - why?

China actually taxes it's peeps to Western standards now they can afford it, not as hard as the Euros but up near the 40% mark like Blighty. India doesn't, it has one of the lowest tax takes as a percentage of GDP in the world around 15%, the reason being everyone is so skint any tax above 15% would literally starve millions to death. We saw this hand-to-mouth existence by their reaction to the lockdown - the city populations decamped after 2 days because their hand-to-mouth buying power ran out without work so they walked to the countryside to stay with relatives near the food source.

What's wrong with India that it can't develop as fast as China? That global capital doesn't trust it as a place to do business as much as China, even though India is a functioning democracy with 15% only state sector / tax take and China is a socialist dictatorship with a 40% state sector / tax take?

I don't get it.

If the Don's Posse is to make headway with China then someone needs to get it, and get India onboard as the iThingy factories and crapulata swapout location for the West. That would really hit the Chinese commies where it hurts.

SoD

To SoD's comment. India has a caste system, like Pakistan.
In it no matter how brilliant and hard working a low caste will never do well, without emigrating, when they do quite well.
Meanwhile, among the Uppers, no matter how thick one is a senior position is always assured. Bit like British military and civil service, among whom I include the BBC, NHS. (I was going to add "used to be." to that last sentence, but. ....)

Literary allusions. A poor thing.
Dear Mr Duff, thank you for the little quotes you sprinkle among your issue.
Your introduction had me off rooting (and not in an Australasian fashion) through the Interwebs.
And there I found "copulatives". A gem of a moniker.
One could use it in place of the Anglo-Saxon equivalent and your target would not know he (hardly ever a "she") had been insulted.
Until later, even more delicious.

But China has its own caste system, the Hukou ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou

It hampers China's development also, so why still the 2-5x income per capita/GDP per capita gap?

SoD

Europe has these as well:
https://campusreform.org/?ID=14847

Universities have been and are a major ally of China. All about money.

A very good question SoD it puzzles me as well.

Counterintuitively it seems easier to do business with China. They just get on with it. So trust but verify.

The Indians I have tried to deal with talk a good game, but it seldom leads to anything.

"Sinophobia"
They were quick getting that one invented, mustn't have any badthink or unpalatable truths here, someone might get offended.

"Sinophobia"
Now is a good time to relearn how to offend the right enemies. Both the China commies and the PC commies as they are closely related.

Jack the Dog,

I'm starting to think it might be a cultural thing too. On the basis of ruling out everything else.

How frustrating! Imagine if they had a "just get on with it" attitude too. I bet you could've negotiated some of those Chinese contracts down a tad!

So much for the British Empire hammering Market Economics, Free Trade and the Common Law into them. Doesn't seem to have done them any good whatsoever. They're a bit like a not-quite-so-bad-but-not-far-off Africa.

Culture is a very complex entanglement of ways, mores, habits, angles, attitudes, and received wisdoms, I think. Like one of those elastic band balls you see in bored bureaucrats' offices. Such a poorly understood subject too, studied to buggery by the lefties but nothing really learned or gained of course - just wokery ammo and political axe grinding. And off limits to any independent free-thinking academic inspection for the same woke and political correctness reasons, like not-quite-so-bad-but-not-far-off race and genetics.

Anyway, moving rapidly along I guess.

SoD

"Trust but verify".
Trust only this- “The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.” The capitalism of China’s dictatorship is taking various sectors of the globe economically — which means also militarily — for China’s dictatorship, and the free West is helping China to make that rope with which to hang capitalism and the free West."

No way around this unless the Chinese people can eliminate the Communists.

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