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Friday, 04 December 2020

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I saw that according to "economists", a no deal Brexit would produce the worst recession in 3 centuries. Not two or four, but three. The EU never wanted a deal so leave.

Buy your French champagne before the price goes up.

You could always try Aussie "champers". It is every bit as good as the Frog variety and not as expensive.

Whitewall the British have plodded on for centuries inspite of the Romans, Normans, Spanish, Frogs, the Kaiser, Old Adolf and our New enemy Biden who prefers the Irish Nazi loving State to ours. But we will survive. I have a nice wee Malt I will open to toast our departure from the EU on Hogmanay. And Bob did you read about the EU orgy in Brussels by the overworked EU officials. Even the BBC kept the lid on it for a few days.

Aussie champers is fabulous. Not the same but very quaffable. It doesn't taste like the French version which is original and best.

Glesga, i don't think that the Irish can be compared to the Nazis. They stayed neutral because they weren't on friendly terms with the UK, not because of any affiliation with a murderous German dictator.

We have a bottle of Perrier Jouet, purchased by my son who has too much money, waiting for an occasion.

If Brexit happens, no deal, I'll be drowning my sorrows. Could there be a worse result?

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-forgotten-volunteers-of-world-war-ii/
Credit where it's due.

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-forgotten-volunteers-of-world-war-ii/
Credit where it's due.

Glesga,

I just read about the orgy because you mentioned it. I personally don't think it means much of anything. We've got another scandal going on about Bubba Clinton:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/03/former-bill-clinton-associate-claims-ex-president-did-visit/

He's one of my least favorite people in the world, but I really don't care about that either. Your opinion of Biden is more than a little overheated. I've already pointed out the US has had formal relations with the EU since 1953. Do you think Biden should break them off because barely over half of Brits decided to put nationalism over their economy?

Actually Bob we have not put nationalism before our economy. We have decided to get rid off an unnecessary tear of governance that is not required and has not benefitted the majority.

Glyn, thanks for your comment. My father decided to join the British army out of conviction. It wasn't about money for him. He had enough already as a working doctor.

For me now, where the past is the past to the extent that we don't even try to remember, it's a little upsetting that the men who came forward to fight were always going to be on the wrong side whatever choice they made.

Bob,

True, the Brexit referendum was won by a very marginal majority. However, since then, the EU had not exactly been covering itself with glory. In last year's general election, Brexit was one of the most important issues, and guess what? The pro Brexit Conservative Party led by Boris won by a landslide.

Attached below is part of Guy Verhofstadt's speech at the 2019 Lib Dem party conference, in which he effectively calls for the dissolution of the nation state and invites Britain to become part of the new EU empire. This went down like a bag of cold sick with the electorate, so much so that it effectively finished the Lib Dems as a political force, reducing them to 11 MPs only and (as stated before) giving the pro Brexit Boris a landslide victory.

In other words, we can boot into touch the notion that Great Britain only voted for Brexit by a very slim margin. Oh, and if Biden is stupid enough to follow in Obama's footsteps by attempting to strong-arm us back into the EU, he will rapidly be reminded that Britain is NOT the 51st state of America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tFDmw6BHuM

Richard,

Verhofstadt's words are poorly chosen, but he's saying that Europeans have more in common with each other than with China or India or the US. It's hard to argue he's wrong. Your idea you're escaping some kind of tyranny instead of staying in a trading bloc rooted in history is only a matter of perception.

The American president and all the forces of diplomacy and policy in his orbit don't have the power to directly decide anything for the UK, which is obvious since it seems you're on your way to a no-deal Brexit. As of now it's extremely difficult to see how you're not going to pay a heavy economic price, or that the UK won't be dissolved, or that you'll be forced to rejoin or at least bargain with the EU under far less favorable conditions.

Richard / Bob, it does not matter how narrow a margin the referendum result was.if the remainers had won by one vote they would rightly have claimed victory. Our ex PM Brown who was a remainer was dragged out today by the media to give his doomsday scenario and that the UK will be isolated in by the EU the USA and indeed the whole trading World. So much for democracy,freedom and self determination. Eh Bob.

Glesga,

Seems you believe any definition of democracy, freedom and self determination includes Britain being able to carry on as if it were still the 18th or 19th centuries. Assuming a no deal Brexit you'll be able to compare Brits' living conditions in a year or so with what they have now and decide which is better. Also assuming Scotland rejoins the EU by then you'll have the option to raise many non-bathtub-brewed drinks to the way things use to be.

Bob,

My definition of democracy includes the quaint old notion that the elected representatives of the people should carry out their wishes and that should they fail to do this satisfactory, the self-same people should have the power to vote them out of office via general election and replace them by others more likely to act in accordance with their wishes.

Jo Swinson, who led the Lib Dems was a victim of this process. She went into the last election promising to ignore the result of the Brexit referendum and to keep the UK in the EU. The Lib Dems were reduced to 11 MPs and Swinson herself lost her seat.

In summary, democracy is not defined as government by a wealthy political elite, for a wealthy political elite who are completely unaccountable to the electorate. The EU bureaucracy is one of the best examples of this on the planet. If Brexit catches on, it promises to dislodge a large number of their snouts from the trough. Consequently, there are no guesses as to where most of the apocalyptic doom 'n' gloom predictions have been coming from.

Bob, Rather cynical of you to make such a comment. Thought you were better than that. Our living conditions will depend on future history as did the past. However if the EU and indeed the USA decide to limit our conditions for their own satisfaction then we will just apply to the World Food Organisation for sustainance. Oh but you Yanks hold the food stocks. Seems we are fucked then!

Bob

An independent Scotland will not be allowed back into the EU for lots of reasons, the main ones being Catalonia and Money. No doubt there are some who would like to let them in to spite us but it won't happen.

Duffers - of course there'll be a "deal" (after weeks of confected brinksmanship)and it will fall well short of what we would have hoped, but at least we will be out, and when we get a PM down the line with his balls less in the grip of a vile watermelon harpy, there will be possibility for improving our condition. Of course the EU could very well go tits up in the mean while...

Glesga,

There was some cynicism in the comment, but it wasn't totally cynical, and I agree with your ideas about democracy. However, I can also see why pure democracy has its limitations. I can't predict the future any better than anyone else, but the consensus among those who should know is that a no-deal Brexit would be an economic calamity for the UK. There might be some technicalities that would make it difficult for Scotland and Ireland to rejoin the EU, but in the environment following a no-deal Brexit, it seems likely they would be gotten around.

The US government is not likely going to make major changes in its long-standing relations with the EU. I'm sorry that you think that makes the US your enemy.

When Americans make suggestions as to how we (the English) should proceed, we should remember our manners and stick to polite indifference.

BOE, taken as read.

An article from a Brit posted on a blog. Well worth the time:
https://realtruckmaster.blog/2020/12/03/a-brits-perspective-of-the-turmoil-festering-in-america/

I, for one, am not making any suggestions whatsoever about how Brits should proceed. Even if I were, the readers and commenters on this blog have vanishingly small control over how Brexit will turn out. I'm writing observations from an American point of view, nothing more.

Bob, I think you are being selective in your democratic view. You Yanks voted for Biden and we Brits voted to leave the EU and the legal vote must be respected.

Glesga,

I agree completely and don't understand why anyone thinks I've said otherwise.

Hey Bob,

Just curious to know if you know how Shipshewana did this year what with all the phobias floating around?

For those not knowing what Shipshewana is or where; here is a link. https://www.shipshewana.com/

Here is something for SoD on Christmas Day. An animation film “Zog and the flying doctors”.

Whitewall,

For those who enlightening would be necessary that's an enlightening link you've left. As Richard's above shines some no small light on, "My definition of democracy includes the quaint old notion that the elected representatives of the people should carry out their wishes and that should they fail to do this satisfactory, the self-same people should have the power to vote them out of office via general election and replace them by others more likely to act in accordance with their wishes."

"[In summary] democracy is not defined as government by a wealthy political elite, for a wealthy political elite who are completely unaccountable to the electorate."

As for myself, at my age, and living where I do my concerns for what has been released upon the now defunct Republic I worry little but were I forty years younger I'm of the frank opinion, my days would be promising some "excitements."

I thank God above that I was fortunate to have lived what I'm only becoming to realize was "peak America."

Troubles are in store for us.

JK,
Troubles indeed. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. We have not been. I'm 74 and have seen this movie in other countries. I told people that yes it can happen here-only gradually. Sometimes I wish I was forty years younger with the abilities and know how I had then when I needed it. But now the one thing I can do, without killing anybody, is talk to young people who I'm discovering are largely receptive to how the places I went and the things I did and learned can translate to now. Most puzzling to me are the 40 something women that seem most interested. History repeats and more quickly now.

Up2L8,

I don't know. My wife use to drag me up there to look for antiques, but we haven't been in the area for years.

JK and Whitewall,

"... democracy is not defined as government by a wealthy political elite, for a wealthy political elite who are completely unaccountable to the electorate."

Absolutely right. Why do you think a supposed NYC real estate billionaire would have any inclination to represent anything other than the wealthy elite, throwing just enough crumbs to average citizens to keep them in line? Especially one who's trying to do an end-run around the democratic process by threatening Republican state officials?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCMM4V6tjw


Whitewall,

"Most puzzling to me are the 40 something women ... "

Perhaps I might offer some clue?

I've a daughter who, throughout her youth and beyond I could never "interest" her in participating in one of my interests. Indeed into quite recently whenever I'd gone to visit her (and family) she, aware of my being licensed and employing that license, insisted I "lock my tool[s]" in my vehicle whenever on her property.

Came a time a few months ago, and though she had no intention of attending, in her city a Trump rally took place. On her way to work during the festivities she found herself at an intersection and though the light was green quite abit she found, owing to the presence of a large "unruly" crowd, her hopes to get to work that day proved impossible.

Some short while later she calls me up asking "Dad, can me and [the husband] come visit and can you arrange some of your *friends 'provide some exercises' for us so that we might er, better ourselves?"

So it turns out that while 40+ years of my patient encouragement could never accomplish what I'd liked, just a few short hours getting harangued by a bunch of BLM thugs at a traffic light absolutely could accomplish!

Perhaps that helps unpuzzle you some Whitewall?

Well Bob as to you insinuating,

"Why do you think a supposed NYC real estate billionaire would have any inclination to represent anything other than the wealthy elite, throwing just enough crumbs to average citizens"

This average citizen at least can assure you that I personally was a beneficiary of, though I wouldn't describe it "a crumb" received - and as no "politician" before ever demonstrated even the inclination to do so - nevertheless in his first 100 days (actually more like 45 days) demonstrate concretely that he was so inclined.

And this average citizen knows personally, quite a number of other average citizens who benefited from that inclination.

And it would seem (I've seen numbers bandied upwards of 70) millions of other "average citizens" preferred "the supposed NYC real estate billionaire" than the alternative. One such as yourself Bob surely must have some curiosity about why.

JK, I've heard similar to what your daughter asked but more of these ladies are taking stock of the 30 something males they see and wonder, where in the Hell are the men?!

JK,

What particular policies do you mean? The tax cut? This is the most rosy take on that I could find:

"After-tax incomes of people in the top 1% are estimated by the Tax Policy Center to rise 2.9% in 2025 vs. a scenario of no change in the tax law. Here are the estimated increases for everyone else: the bottom fifth of households, up 0.4%; second fifth, up 0.9%; middle fifth, up 1.3%; fourth fifth, up 1.4%; and top fifth (which includes the top 1%), up 2.3%."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-27/the-trump-tax-cut-wasn-t-just-for-the-rich

The 350-400 miles of new border wall? What?

On a UK blog Bob?

I don't understand the question.

Hope that helps.

JK,

Nope. You seem to be hinting at some national security issue, but I'm not buying. Belligerence doesn't equal results. Let me help: Trump's biggest success was the trade war with China, but it didn't really amount to much because he had just as many Wall Streeters in his administration as any other president lately. The American right wanted to "run America like a business" and that's what you got. Biden isn't likely to change it either.

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